Neutering and stigma

laurita · Sep 9, 2011

Hi friends-
I never imagined how unpopular a decision it'd be to leave my dog intact. Maybe it's because I live in a large city, maybe it's because people think we don't have a clue, maybe people just like telling others what to do, but I feel like I constantly have to assure others that we do know the risks involved and are making a conscious decision to wait. Even my neighbor, a good friend, repeatedly says that "its time to get him snipped" and not for any of the behavioral reasons associated with intact dogs, but because it's such an ingrained thing that by 6 months, your male should be neutered.

I'm not a parent, but it sort of makes me wonder if this is what parenting is like!

SteelCityDozer · Sep 9, 2011

Dozer is still intact at a year it never really comes up as an issue except at the dog park, which I think I'm quitting anyway. Our trainer always says in group class it's not what's between their legs but what's in their heads that makes the decisions. We'll probably neuter in about six months when he should be done filling out. I don't have kids either but I imagine it is the same. Everyone raises their own in their own way.

redbirddog · Sep 9, 2011

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2010/02/testicles-or-no-testicles.html

Do what you feel is right for you and your dog. Learn the pros and cons.

We raised two daughters and people who didn't have kids tended to be the ones who gave the most advice on what we should and shouldn't do.
After we parted from them my wife and I would smile or laugh at what they suggested. Some people just can't help themselves.

Remember in Sweden, spaying and neutering is against the law, under the animal cruelty ordinances.

http://redbirddog.blogspot.com/2011/07/on-going-discussion-on-spay-and-neuter.html

We spayed Chloe at 6 months following our vets recommendation. She is fine and we see no ill effects. We didn't know any better at the time and we thought we were doing right.

Good luck and happy trails,

RBD

datacan · Sep 9, 2011

:-[ Sam is 6 months old and we will wait until his second birthday to have him sterilized, or keep him happy and bouncy as is.
He is still cute and not visible too much and no embarrassing habits noticed. I discourage anyone from touching him down there, maybe he will notice late that he carries extra package.
My Vet assured me all services will be refused at his office until I go ahead with the procedure. So I am shopping for a new vet...hahaha.

harrigab · Sep 9, 2011

if all dogs got spayed/neutered then...... there'd be no dogs (is that not a type of genocide/ethnic cleansing?) rant over :

Kailua · Sep 9, 2011

Due to us showing Snickers, we didn't have Snickers neutered until after 18 months. And yes, it's true, it's not what's between the legs but their disposition. When we would go to the dog park only one person was adamant about us not neutering him and giving us the riot act. I was so ticked off at that person that I said, "I'll neuter him if you pay!" That shut her up real fast.

1notenough · Sep 9, 2011

no way no how,Not ever.I am sure that the way he came is the way i want him.As far as I am concerned its all hype.Yes there are a lot of dogs wanted and unwanted and i can see the reasons as far as thats concerned to keep the population under control.If the only reason is the cancer then i will take my chances.Ask yourself this question,would you cut your breasts off if their was a chance you would get cancer,would you cut your prostate out if there was that same chance.or would you wait and see hoping for the best.Well i wish you all the best because their is that chance,a very real chance.The way I see things may be a little different but i figure it this way.cutting into my dog and screwing around with nature is a violation of their rights and not natural.Should you replace their hips before they go bad?I wouldn't think so.I will treat my dogs well feed them well give them a good place to live they are only with us for a short time.By the way I lost my father due to complications from surgery for prostate cancer,i can tell you this I am keeping mine for as long as i can cancer or not.Good luck with your choices...

Lucy Vizsla · Sep 9, 2011

That is a personal choice and he is your dog. As we help with Vizsla rescue and we spay and neuter them all as a breeding issue, but also to preserve the breed as we don't know about these dogs. My brother has two males who he has never neutered and they are just fine. We spay and neuter our dogs because you need to leave them as dog daycare and over nit facilities and they must be

we haven't found a non-kennel facility that will take them otherwise. Ignore those people, there are pros and cons to both. I had to laugh, I was just commenting to my husband that I think people think he are mean for doing it.

mswhipple · Sep 9, 2011

Willie came to me out of the dog pound already neutered. Prior to Willie, I've only had two other male dogs, and neither of them were neutered. We were just very careful when the neighbor's dog came into her heat, and we never had any "accidents".

I didn't know that spaying/neutering were against the law in Sweden. That's interesting to learn.

In Hungary, it is against the law to dock (amputate) a dog's tail, too. It seems that everyone has their own ideas about what is right. I remember once reading a quote from Roger Caras (he's the man who used to host the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show). He said:

"There are really only three sins -- Causing pain, causing fear, and causing anguish. The rest is just window dressing."

I thought that was so profound. It stuck with me all these years.

harrigab · Sep 9, 2011

mswhipple said:
Willie came to me out of the dog pound already neutered. Prior to Willie, I've only had two other male dogs, and neither of them was neutered. We were just very careful when the neighbor's dog came into her heat, and we never had any "accidents".

I didn't know that spaying/neutering were against the law in Sweden. That's interesting to learn.

In Hungary, it is against the law to dock (amputate) a dog's tail, too. It seems that everyone has their own ideas about what is right. I remember once reading a quote from Roger Caras (he's the man who used to host the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show). He said:

"There are really only three sins -- Causing pain, causing fear, and causing anguish. The rest is just window dressing."

I thought that was so profound. It stuck with me all these years.

also here in the UK mswhipple, unless you can prove that your dog will be a working dog or for otherwise medical reasons.

mswhipple · Sep 9, 2011

Here's another interesting piece of information... Did you know that there is actually a product called "Neuticles". These are testicular implants for the neutered male dog, so that if you decided to have your male dog neutered, the Vet could implant these things that look just like the real things, and nobody would be the wiser. Can you believe it?? Maybe they are available just so your male dog won't get any kind of mental "complex" when he realizes his "bits" are missing. :'(

harrigab · Sep 10, 2011

mswhipple said:
Here's another interesting piece of information... Did you know that there is actually a product called "Neuticles". These are testicular implants for the neutered male dog, so that if you decided to have your male dog neutered, the Vet could implant these things that look just like the real things, and nobody would be the wiser. Can you believe it?? Maybe they are available just so your male dog won't get any kind of mental "complex" when he realizes his "bits" are missing. :'(

omg!! hope Ruby doesn't wanna look like Pamela Anderson!!

SandraDee · Sep 10, 2011

This argument is the same one that lots of parents have now with reegard to little boys and circumcision. That one gets insane.

I have to admit I don't get keeping your dog intact if you are not using him to breed, or show. I hate going to the dog park with my neutered male, when there are un uetered males there. More often then not they are the more aggressive dogs, they are contantly trying to hump anything that moves, and generally just get so bothersome particularly with the female dogs, that a lot of people end up having to leave.

At six months most dogs won't show any of the typical behaviours that people see and why the get their dogs nuetered. They don't hump everything, they aren't overly aggressive blah blah blah.

I have two small kids, I live in a neighbourhood full of dogs and little kids, for me it was a situation where I was not willing to take the risk of my dog being aggressive to my chidren, other children, other pets. We waited untik he was 9 months to have him done, and really it was the right decision for us.

Therer has been zero chAnge in his personality, he's still a happy go lucky guy, and he has one thing now that he never has to worry about, he never has the need/urge to mate, so I don't feel like I'm denying him anything, or hVing to punish him for unwanted behaviour that would result because of his natural urges.

laurita · Sep 10, 2011

Thank you all so much for your replies. They have given me a lot to think about and I've gotten some nice laughs out of them as well.

Rod- any advice on how to navigate the intact waters while he matures? Have you had problems with Bailey trying to mount Chloe (even though she's spayed)? I share a backyard with the friend who keeps insisting that I neuter mine and he's not tried humping her...yet (he's 8.5 mos old). Also, any advice on keeping your dog from marking when other dogs are in your house or when your dog is at other people's houses? Mine did once when I had several dogs in a small apartment (my fault there).

Steelcitydozer- I really liked what your trainer said. Great advice.

Mswhipple- thank you for that great quote.

datacan- I always get a kick out of your posts. We are really fortunate in that we love our vet, our vet loves our dog, and she asked us to wait to neuter him if we could. That floored us because everyone else around us says the opposite. She's also Latin, and I've noticed that Latin people (anecdotally speaking) have pushed to wait or not neuter. I'm Latin, so if I'm stereotyping, at least I'm including myself in there!

SandreDee- While everyone has their own reasons to wait or go ahead with it, our personal reason for waiting is because of the papers we've read on neutered males (especially early neuter) and an increased risk of orthopedic issues, certain cancers, and behavioral tendencies. Of course, this is just a risk and not an absolute, so our dog could have no problems if we neutered him or he could have other problems that have nothing to do with that. It's a gamble. We fully accept the behavioral risks on the other end from not neutering, but for now as long as those are at bay and we don't see issues with aggression, we personally would rather work through them and garner the benefits of testosterone at this age. Thankfully, my dog has not humped other dogs-- he has gotten humped quite a few times, funnily enough by neutered males. That's probably just due to the fact that there is a very small proportion of intact males at the dog park I go to. One other is a great dane and I totally understand the owner's wish to wait because of the slow bone growth of a giant breed. The other thing we have to be and are vigilant about is other males not liking him because he isn't neutered. Just the other morning, an older male vizsla saw him and was just furious about him being there (hackles up, hard stares, etc), so I called my dog over and we got out of there right away.

Thanks guys!

1notenough · Sep 11, 2011

being the alpha male of my pack humping is not allowed and their is no problem with hurting his feelings about not being able to breed .only the alpha pair breeds anyways.
Aggression directed to other dogs again not allowed unless the dogs owner is continually allowing his dog to act out of line then i would encourage my dog/not directly, to defend himself and his space.Now that my boys are going to be four next spring i am starting to see more signs of maturity /disregard for my first command.Time for some training enhancements. High speed dogs need high speed training

Linescreamer · Sep 12, 2011

You hit the nail on the head! Just like being a parent. You say and do allot of things that are unpopular and can't worry about what others think. Humping is a dominating activity and neutered dogs hump. Copper is not neutered, and will not be until he matures, or shows signs of aggression or illness. Being a parent takes more determination (in today's world) then most will ever know, or understand. You children will grow up to be model citizens and the envy of all those that love to criticize.

laurita · Sep 12, 2011

Thank you, linescreamer. I really appreciate the support! It makes it easier knowing that there's a support group, even if it is a cyber one

Neutering and stigma

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