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Discussion Starter #1
we just got back from the Vet. Scout injured his shoulder when he was about 3 months old after falling down thre stairs. We (including thr vet) didn't think much of it at the time. Since then though, he seems to aggrevate it everytime he does vigorous exercise. He really hurt it again yesterday, which is why we went to the vet today.

She thinks it may be a result of a congential problem. Awesome. If this is the case, should I be contacting thr breeder?

The one good thing about it is he is getting neutered next week anyway, so they are going to do his shoulder xrays then, so I won't have to pay for anesthetic twice (apparently they have to sedate the dogs to donthe xrays on the shoulder)
 

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Re: Well crap....this sucks the dog has shoulder problems

Did you get any genetic health guarantee? If so, definitely tell your breeder. It's probably even good to tell the breeder either way though, because if your breeder is responsible, he/she would maybe look into the lines, not breed the same dogs again, etc.

I hope his xrays turn out alright :-\
 

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Re: Well crap....this sucks the dog has shoulder problems

Make sure they check for OCD.
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1569&aid=464
Keep his exercise to a minimum, and do not let him run down stairs or jump from any surfaces more than 12"... it really causes grief on the shoulder joints.
Personally I would crate him (or keep him relaxed at home) until you can figure out what is wrong with the little guy. He will go nuts but it's for his own good.
Good luck.
 

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Re: Well crap....this sucks the dog has shoulder problems

Crazy said:
Make sure they check for OCD.
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1569&aid=464
Keep his exercise to a minimum, and do not let him run down stairs or jump from any surfaces more than 12"... it really causes grief on the shoulder joints.
Personally I would crate him (or keep him relaxed at home) until you can figure out what is wrong with the little guy. He will go nuts but it's for his own good.
Good luck.
That's interesting, thanks for the link. I'm pretty sure that is what theybare checking for based on our discussion and the vets continual references to lesions, their size..... I'd actually be glad if that was the case, because it sounds like its not a chronic thing and something that can be taken care of with surgery (although I don't really want to oay for it, but what can you do). I'd much rather that diagnosis then something like osteoarthritis.

And I can't crate him. He will indeed go mental. I'm home all the time, and my kids are home most of the day. He would dig his way out of the crate to be with us . Right now he is on just leash walks (no running or off leash walks), and we are limiting his play a lot. But holy crow is it ever tough to keep a V puppy calm.
 

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Re: Well crap....this sucks the dog has shoulder problems

I hope it all works out for you. Having to keep a V under restriction is definitely a lossing battle. We have been through that twice so far. First time was after spaying. We kept her in the crate for first couple days, only out to eat, drink and go potty. Then on leash for rest of the time. Second time was just recently. Holley hurt her foot and we had to stick to shorter walks and no excitement in the house. That was so difficult and we had alot of pent up energy to deal with that presented itself in many bad ways but it was best for her so we did it. The vet recommended 25mg of benadryl to try to relax her. It didn't work for us but you might ask about that with your vet.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Re: Well crap....this sucks the dog has shoulder problems

Thought. I would just update. Scout was neutered this morning and druing his opoeration they took xrays of his shoulders and elbows, The Vet has indicated she is sending the xrays to a specialist in Guleph, ON (its where the big prestigious vetrinarian school is in Canada). She suspects that he has elbow dysplasia, which from what I've read is a pretty sucky outcome. Its basically arthritis of his elbow and even though they can do surgery to "fix" the issue, it doesn't cure it and affected dogs never gain full proper use of their joint.

One of the telltale signs of this are a dog that stands with his feet out turned and elbows tucked in. this is exactly how Scout stands.

Argh, I'm totally kicking myslef now for not taking out Health insurance for him
 

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Re: Well crap....this sucks the dog has shoulder problems

My V has a not to serious hip dysplasia! We're using a nutritional supplement called Seraqoin which helps to support cartilage repair. I would say it is helping for as so far because we did not have any problem for about a year when we started to take them.
She was diagnosed at 11 month old.Now you cannot tell she has any problem with her hips(still a lunatic)!
Ask your vet about it or search online it is not a medicine so you can buy it there for about £16 for 60 pills.
 

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Re: Well crap....this sucks the dog has shoulder problems

We received a firm diagnosis for Scout's problems. His films were sent for review by two radiologists and they ahve confirmed what our Vet thought. Scout has Elbow Dysplasia, specifically Fragmented Medial Coronoid Process (fcmp). He is being referred to a specialist to have arthroscopic surgery on his affected joint, to rremove bone fragments (read that as surgery that is going to cost me A LOT of dough). The prognosis is that it will help relieve some of the lameness he is experiencing, but his joint is already arthritic and the likliehood of it presenting in the other elbow as well is high as FCMP is generally bilateral in nature.

I was also told that this is in fact a genetic issue, not a result of injury. So i have contacted the breeder. I'm not particularly happy with her response at this time, she is either in denial or is buying time to give me so e big song and dance about it, I'm
not sure which. Needless to say I'm prertty upset about the entire thing.

Here a little blurb about the disease

http://www.VeterinaryPartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=2537
 

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Re: Updated in reply 7- ..this sucks the dog has shoulder problems

I just spoke to the breeder. She said the best she can do is buy Scout back from us. :'(. I clearly can't do that. We've only had the little sucker for 6 1/2 months and its crazy how he has wormed his way into out hearts. He's a family member and I can't just give him away because of this thing that is not his fault. I can't do it and my kids would be absolutely devestated.
 

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Re: Updated in reply 7- ..this sucks the dog has shoulder problems

WHAT!
Who the heck is the breeder?
Surely she must have something in her contract regarding health guarantees. Seems most breeders in Ontario had a minimum 2 yr. for health issues, ours has 5.
Did you not sign a contract, maybe you can review it?

Good luck and sorry to hear about the prognosis.
 

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Re: Updated in reply 7- ..this sucks the dog has shoulder problems

We have a very basic contract with them. The health guarntee indicates that puppy is in good health when it left and needs to be confirmed within 48 hrs of leaving the breeder, which was done. Any genetic issuesnthat pop up, the breeder will take the dog back and compensate with the ourchase price.

This is the third dog that my family has gotten from this breeder, and we really like them, haven't had any issues with the other two dogs, and wwe have known them for about 20 yrs. They have always been reasonable to deal with.

I don't really think what they have offered isunreasonable, its just not going to happen, I can't give the dog back for a couple of reasons. First and foremost of course is he is a part of our family andyou don't just chuck away a member of your family because he has some health issues. My kids would be beyond devestated and at their ages could not in anyway comprehend why we would have to give him away. And I honestly don't think I could fully believe that they wouldn't have him put down because his issues are genetic. There is no way they would incur the cost of buying him back and then also incur the massive costs of having the surgerybdone and paying for any future health issues relating to this, so although he is neutered and not breedable I would believe that would seriously be an option for them. (I don't think this is an uncommon practice with breeders, I'm fairly certain itsnquite common)
 

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Re: Updated in reply 7- ..this sucks the dog has shoulder problems

Not sure how things work in Canada, but in the US buyers do have some recourse even if they have the type of breeders contract that you have. The courts understand that breeders will include a "buy back" clause knowing that after you have bonded with your pet, there is no way that you will sell it back to the breeder.

Perhaps you could ask the breeder to refund 1/2 of the purchase price with the understanding that in the event that the injury/illness results in the dog having to be put down to end suffering, they would either refund the remaining balance or provide you with a pup from the next litter at a reduced price. If they agree, make sure that you get it in writing, at this point it is not about friendship, it's about business.

I am so sorry that you are having to deal with this.
 

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Re: Updated in reply 7- ..this sucks the dog has shoulder problems

So another update. I finally spoke to the breeder (waited a while because I didn't want to get overly emotional). Told her thank you for the offer of purchasing him back, but that we are a family and he's part of it so that it wasn't going to happen. I asked her if she would be willing to put the purchase price towards his surgery, and she agreed. I also wanted to make sure that no one felt any malice towards the other, and we are good. she feels really bad about what has happened, and is being really nice. She has also assured me that any time we need to have Scout stay with them, he is more then welcome.

So that's the best outcome out of everything really that I could have hoped for.
 

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Wonderful outcome to a sticky situation. Hugs to Scout, hope he's not too uncomfortable.
 

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I'm glad to hear that your situation was "resolved" . I don't know of any dog owner that would be willing to give their dog back to the breeder after bonding with their four-legged family member. Wishing you ther very best with Scout and his health. :-*
 

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It does sound like that breeder has her heart in the right place.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
kellygh said:
How is Scout? :)
He's doing well. We are still waiting for our appointment with the specialist, which is supposed to be May 31st. I may have to reschedule due to some scheduling conflicts and the availability of babysitters (I have to drive a 2 1/2 hr round trip to get to the specialist and I have two small kids in school).

His elbow doesn't seem to bother him much and we have anti inflammatories to give him if it seems to bother him at all. He's still a crazy V that loves to run and goof around.
 
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