My V is 2 years old. He has a small hole above his nose where the fur starts. I believe he was born with the hole. I never thought much of it until he had soft tissue swelling further up his snout with pus coming out of the hole. He was treated with antibiotics and it cleared up. I am not sure what to do next. What is to stop this hole from getting infected again? Thinking of getting a CT scan so we can get a better idea of the anatomy of the hole. If anyone has had any experience with this, I welcome your info. Thanks.
Hole above nose
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UPDATE: Blue has what is called a Nasal Dermoid Sinus. It is a rare genetic anomaly. Off to the vet tomorrow to let him know we figured it out. Hopefully surgery will be scheduled soon to remove it and Blue will be good as new. Thanks for all of your help, jk, no one answered, lol. Maybe this will help someone else out if they ever find one on their V. I attached a picture showing the hole for reference.
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Thx for pic, a direct entry into nasal/sinus cavity seems like a bad idea. I would probably want it plugged (there are bone putty type mixtures that are used in facial/bone reconstructions in humans or perhaps they can do a different surgical close) as he is still relatively young. I wonder if this abnormality stems from these being extremely fine boned dogs. Good luck; he's a handsome guy.
I recall Blue having the hole when we got him at 8 weeks, but never thought much of it until he had the swelling and pus when he was almost 2. The breeder does not recall the hole and does not know if any other pups from the liter or any other liters they have had have it. If it is a dermoid sinus, it is a genetic condition that occurs in development as an embryo. It happens in humans also. It is rare, but there seems to be more documentation of it in Ridgebacks along their spine. I will be taking him to the University of Florida Vet school in a couple weeks. They will do a full work up and diagnostics so we can come up with a treatment plan.
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Just researching this now as my 3yo Husky/Shepherd mix has an identical issue. Hole above nose, no issues until this year when it had puss discharge back in Feb/March… cleared up. Now here we are in July and it started with puss discharge, then started to swell and now has a bloody discharge. Vet has him on antibiotics and we follow up in a month while he as researchers to see what he can find. Were you able to get a diagnosis. Any information would be appreciated.
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Hi my new vizsla puppy has the same thing. Is there anything you can tell me about it?
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Hello
No experience of this in dogs but do have in humans.
Pilonidal sinus looks very similar problem.
Best wishes to you pup xxx
Surgical correction is possible. Nasal dermoid sinus cysts in the dog - PubMed
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Hope you all get a good outcome. xx
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Hi All,
my small-medium sized dog (mixed breed of unknown heritage, probably around 8 years old) rapidly grew this lump on his nose over 3-4 days over the weekend. It was so symmetrical and so unlike an infection/bruise that I was suspicious it was something to do with the pit at the end of his nose - google brought me here. Thanks all for posting your insights & pics.
I am pretty sure it is a nasal dermoid cyst/related to the dermoid sinus pit that he has in common with the other dogs on this thread.
He is with the vet today, having it investigated, but I had to email her the research articles - she'd never heard of this issue before. I am based in London (UK) and I'm considering taking him to the Royal Veterinary College clinic for a second opinion, if the local vet isn't taking it seriously. I will see what the outcome is of today's fine needle aspiration.
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my small-medium sized dog (mixed breed of unknown heritage, probably around 8 years old) rapidly grew this lump on his nose over 3-4 days over the weekend. It was so symmetrical and so unlike an infection/bruise that I was suspicious it was something to do with the pit at the end of his nose - google brought me here. Thanks all for posting your insights & pics.
I am pretty sure it is a nasal dermoid cyst/related to the dermoid sinus pit that he has in common with the other dogs on this thread.
He is with the vet today, having it investigated, but I had to email her the research articles - she'd never heard of this issue before. I am based in London (UK) and I'm considering taking him to the Royal Veterinary College clinic for a second opinion, if the local vet isn't taking it seriously. I will see what the outcome is of today's fine needle aspiration.
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Hello. Thanks for welcoming me and my non-Vizsla!
Here's the first update... £500 later, anti-inflammatories and antibiotics have made no difference. If anything, the skin seems a tiny bit tighter over the lump. My dog is absolutely well and bright, not experiencing any pain or irritation, and doesn't seem bothered at all that he is turning into a rhinoceros! So I'm not too worried about him for the moment. I just want to deal with it before it turns into something more serious.
Fine needle aspirates were sent by the local vet to a lab for cytological investigation.
This email is from one vet at the local practice -
"We have results back from the lab - they've informed us that your dog has a pyogranulomatous inflammation. To you and me, that means he has a site of inflammation with some pus and a small amount of blood in. The plan going forward now depends on how he is responding. If he's doing well, and the swelling is going down with the antibiotics then I think we need to continue the medication and re-check Pip in a week's time. If he isn't responding at all the to the medication and the swelling is the same size or larger, then we should have him back in to aspirate the mass for culture."
I looked up pyogranulomatous inflammation and found this info:
Pyogranulomatous (Chronic Active) InflammationThese preparations have an inflammatory population that contains both neutrophils and a prominent fraction of macrophages (15% to 50% macrophages). Multinucleated giant cells, reactive fibroblasts, and lymphocytes may be present also. Pyogranulomatous inflammation suggests a cause other than “routine” bacterial infection. Fungal infections (e.g., blastomycosis), higher bacteria (e.g., Actinomyces), mycobacteria, protozoa, and noninfectious disorders (e.g., foreign bodies, necrosis) are common causes of pyogranulomatous inflammation. - https://www.vetfolio.com/learn/article/cytology-of-inflammation
I asked a few basic questions in reply. Then the more senior vet at the same local practice replied with this: "Next week is better as we want more time with the current medication. If the lump isn’t resolving with the current antibiotics; we may need to try to aspirate for culture. The lump was pretty solid and did not yield any liquid the other day. The procedure the other day involved removal of some cells for cytology. Culture involves trying to get some material out of the lump that is sent in a swab to the lab where they grow and identify any bacteria and then give us a sensitivity panel which lets us know which antibiotics to use. We do this when we are not making enough progress with broad spectrum antibiotics."
So now at least I can have a weekend off before I have to do anything. But I am confused - 1. if it's pyogranulomatous inflammation and this suggests a cause other than normal bacteria, it's no wonder the broad spectrum antibiotics are doing nothing, so why are we waiting/continuing them? 2. if the lump is solid and doesn't yield liquid, are we actually dealing with an infection? 3. If it is an infection, pyogranulomatous inflammation suggests that it isn't straightforward bacterial, so I hope the panel will be testing for other types of infection, 4. how would an infection have got in there, since there was never any cut/splinter etc., 5. So far, it is all in line with the dermoid cyst, but has the vet actually read anything I sent? Done her own research? 6. Why isn't she interested in the nasal pit?
So I will be asking all these questions of the vet.
I investigated getting a second opinion from the RCVS clinic, but they are not providing second opinions at the moment because COVID has/is causing a backlog of cases (bloody lockdown puppy purchasers.....!).
What I'm tempted to do is ask for a direct referral now to the RCVS Hospital (not too far from London) and combine a CT/MRI scan with the aspiration for culture. That way, he would only be having one further general anaesthetic instead of 2+. And the imaging would be able to give a broader picture of what's going on.
Thanks for keeping me company on this lonely and expensive journey... I'll try to continue updates. If long and detailed isn't your thing, then bad luck!
If anyone else with a dog diagnosed with a nasal dermoid sinus / cyst issue has any info on the diagnostic process and whether any of this overlaps, please do share.
AJBB
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Here's the first update... £500 later, anti-inflammatories and antibiotics have made no difference. If anything, the skin seems a tiny bit tighter over the lump. My dog is absolutely well and bright, not experiencing any pain or irritation, and doesn't seem bothered at all that he is turning into a rhinoceros! So I'm not too worried about him for the moment. I just want to deal with it before it turns into something more serious.
Fine needle aspirates were sent by the local vet to a lab for cytological investigation.
This email is from one vet at the local practice -
"We have results back from the lab - they've informed us that your dog has a pyogranulomatous inflammation. To you and me, that means he has a site of inflammation with some pus and a small amount of blood in. The plan going forward now depends on how he is responding. If he's doing well, and the swelling is going down with the antibiotics then I think we need to continue the medication and re-check Pip in a week's time. If he isn't responding at all the to the medication and the swelling is the same size or larger, then we should have him back in to aspirate the mass for culture."
I looked up pyogranulomatous inflammation and found this info:
Pyogranulomatous (Chronic Active) InflammationThese preparations have an inflammatory population that contains both neutrophils and a prominent fraction of macrophages (15% to 50% macrophages). Multinucleated giant cells, reactive fibroblasts, and lymphocytes may be present also. Pyogranulomatous inflammation suggests a cause other than “routine” bacterial infection. Fungal infections (e.g., blastomycosis), higher bacteria (e.g., Actinomyces), mycobacteria, protozoa, and noninfectious disorders (e.g., foreign bodies, necrosis) are common causes of pyogranulomatous inflammation. - https://www.vetfolio.com/learn/article/cytology-of-inflammation
I asked a few basic questions in reply. Then the more senior vet at the same local practice replied with this: "Next week is better as we want more time with the current medication. If the lump isn’t resolving with the current antibiotics; we may need to try to aspirate for culture. The lump was pretty solid and did not yield any liquid the other day. The procedure the other day involved removal of some cells for cytology. Culture involves trying to get some material out of the lump that is sent in a swab to the lab where they grow and identify any bacteria and then give us a sensitivity panel which lets us know which antibiotics to use. We do this when we are not making enough progress with broad spectrum antibiotics."
So now at least I can have a weekend off before I have to do anything. But I am confused - 1. if it's pyogranulomatous inflammation and this suggests a cause other than normal bacteria, it's no wonder the broad spectrum antibiotics are doing nothing, so why are we waiting/continuing them? 2. if the lump is solid and doesn't yield liquid, are we actually dealing with an infection? 3. If it is an infection, pyogranulomatous inflammation suggests that it isn't straightforward bacterial, so I hope the panel will be testing for other types of infection, 4. how would an infection have got in there, since there was never any cut/splinter etc., 5. So far, it is all in line with the dermoid cyst, but has the vet actually read anything I sent? Done her own research? 6. Why isn't she interested in the nasal pit?
So I will be asking all these questions of the vet.
I investigated getting a second opinion from the RCVS clinic, but they are not providing second opinions at the moment because COVID has/is causing a backlog of cases (bloody lockdown puppy purchasers.....!).
What I'm tempted to do is ask for a direct referral now to the RCVS Hospital (not too far from London) and combine a CT/MRI scan with the aspiration for culture. That way, he would only be having one further general anaesthetic instead of 2+. And the imaging would be able to give a broader picture of what's going on.
Thanks for keeping me company on this lonely and expensive journey... I'll try to continue updates. If long and detailed isn't your thing, then bad luck!
If anyone else with a dog diagnosed with a nasal dermoid sinus / cyst issue has any info on the diagnostic process and whether any of this overlaps, please do share.
AJBB
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@Eli&RemysMom any update about your dog? Hope he's doing OK.
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