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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone!

Tossing up between these two wonderful breeds and are extensively researching the better breed to serve our needs.

A little more about myself and my fiance..

Both professionals living in the suburb of Armadale, Melbourne.

We have always had our eyes set on a Vizsla or a GSP but apartment living together has hampered that. We are currently living living in an apartment block that is quite spacious and has a communal backyard along with our own private front (grassed) area, big enough for a beautiful dog to run around in.

As mentioned, we are both very active people and exercise everyday as fitness is apart of our lives.

We both have owned dogs in the past but not for a few years now.

We own also own a 8 y/o Russian Blue female cat so the breed would have to adapt to a cat being around also and vice versa.

We both have our hearts set on a beautiful girl to complement our beautiful natures.

Hoping for some positive advice on the appropriate breed to compliment our loving and caring natures.

Kind regards

WOWO
 

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Hello! Happy Autumn and Easter to you! Melbourne sounds wonderful! I am new here as well! I hope that the mod will respond because I am curious too! At Westminster this year, a GSP named CJ won Best in Show. He's a gorgeous dog, but a mystery to me. Don't hesitate to correspond if you wish -we newbies have to get acquainted ;D. Thanks for sharing!
 

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WOWO1973 said:
Hello everyone!

Tossing up between these two wonderful breeds and are extensively researching the better breed to serve our needs.

A little more about myself and my fiance..

Both professionals living in the suburb of Armadale, Melbourne.

We have always had our eyes set on a Vizsla or a GSP but apartment living together has hampered that. We are currently living living in an apartment block that is quite spacious and has a communal backyard along with our own private front (grassed) area, big enough for a beautiful dog to run around in.

As mentioned, we are both very active people and exercise everyday as fitness is apart of our lives.

We both have owned dogs in the past but not for a few years now.

We own also own a 8 y/o Russian Blue female cat so the breed would have to adapt to a cat being around also and vice versa.

We both have our hearts set on a beautiful girl to complement our beautiful natures.

Hoping for some positive advice on the appropriate breed to compliment our loving and caring natures.

Kind regards

WOWO
Since there are a lot of views and no responses, I'll offer an answer. We Vizsla owners tend not to be "boosters" of the breed. Those who desire a V in their lives, in our (collective) minds, should have no doubts, and even then we're skeptical most people know what it takes in terms of exercise requirements, training requirements, and emotional needs (all of which are sky high). Few people will try to talk a person "into" a Vizsla, and most will try to dissuade. Not because Vizslas aren't great dogs, but because they are.

Now a GSP and a Vizsla are close cousins, bred for the same purposes, created at the same time (don't believe the fanciful Vizsla creation mythology, as it is pure invention) and much shared genetics.

A person who likes Vs or GSPs is likely to enjoy the other. Further, with breeds that are so similar the differences with-in a breed can sometimes be as great as across these two. So these are "generalizations" that should be understood as such, and they come from one persons experience (mine).

As similar as the two breeds are there are a few general differences.

One, Vs have no undercoat. GSPs have a short (but dense) undercoat. An undercoat is an advantage in cold weather, but makes GSPs more "doggy" than Vizslas. My V (who is raw fed) has a coat that feels like soft velvet, where GSPs coats tend to be more coarse, but GSPs coat is better for weather.

Two, GSPs tend to be larger than Vizslas. Not to say there isn't cross-over in size (a big V might be bigger than a small GSP), but it is something w=to consider.

Three, at least in the USA a very well-bred GSP can generally be had for far less money than a well-bred Vizsla. Almost half the price.

Four, GSPs (in the main) tend to be less emotionally needy than Vizslas. A GSP is often content to be a kennel dog, Vizslas tend to need their people around to be happy. This difference is probably the biggest deal. Vs tend to be needy. The upside, if you like a very affectionate dog, is they really bond with their masters. However some suffer badly from separation anxiety. GSPs tend to be less needy. Still good friendly dogs, but dogs.

Five, Vizslas have an elegance that the handsome and utilitarian GSPs don't quite muster IMO. GSP owners tend to like their dogs not being snooty, and think of them like a good truck.

Of the differences the emotion needs of the Vizsla strike me as the most significant issue. Two aphorism one hears about our "velcro" dogs are "you will never go to the bathroom alone" and the Hungarian saying, "if you own a Vizsla it lives on your head." Vizsla often seem like they would meld into your body we're it possible, and they've not given up hope that it is. Is such neediness a positive for you, or not? A V could drive the wrong owner nuts.

The exercise and training needs of Vs and GSPs are going to be pretty similar. Vizslas don't tend to take well to harsh training methods, where (not that they should be used) many gun dog trainers use a lot of "pressure" (a euphemism for pain) with GSPs.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

Bill
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the reply Bill!

My fiance and i visited a Vizsla breeder over the weekend here in Melbourne, Australia.

I must say this breed is totally full of beans and hyperactive to say the least!

They own 12 dogs in total and also have a litter of 8 pups.

Next we want to visit a GSP breeder and compare.

We are kind of leaning towards the GSP at the moment..

Cheers

Muzza
 

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It's nice to believe that you have made your choice almost. Good luck with a GSP. Happy belated Easter Monday :)

To Bill:Thank you for your kind answer; it was quite informative. By the way- with the raw diet, how do deal with meats? Do you cook them to kill bacteria? Again , thank you.
 

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WOWO1973 said:
Thanks for the reply Bill!

My fiance and i visited a Vizsla breeder over the weekend here in Melbourne, Australia.

I must say this breed is totally full of beans and hyperactive to say the least!

They own 12 dogs in total and also have a litter of 8 pups.

Next we want to visit a GSP breeder and compare.

We are kind of leaning towards the GSP at the moment..

Cheers

Muzza
Hey Muzza,

It is a good idea to visit a number of breeders in person to observe differences in lines. A well-bred Vizsla should be high-energy and highly-active, but not "hyper-active." Both Vizslas and GSPs have high exercise requirements. I looked for a line that went gang-buster in the field, but was calm in the home, and got a V that suits me high-energy and athletic, bit with an "off switch").

With either breed, they need to run daily. Neither are couch potatoes.

Take your time to find the right dog, from the right litter, from the right breeding pair. Which ever way you go. There are enough individual differences between pups and lines to make it worth "the process" of finding a pup with the qualities that resonate most with you. All GSPs are not the same, nor are all Vs the same, despite their being strong breed traits.

Best wishes in your search.

Bill
 

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cuddlebuglove said:
To Bill:Thank you for your kind answer; it was quite informative. By the way- with the raw diet, how do deal with meats? Do you cook them to kill bacteria? Again , thank you.
As discussing raw diets tends to derail threads quickly and I'd like to keep this one on topic, please check out this thread http://www.vizslaforums.com/index.php/topic,34330.msg250354.html#msg250354 and feel free to ask any questions there. Thanks! :D
 

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Any household with 12 dogs has to be fairly chaotic! I don't necessarily think that's a fair representation of what you might expect.

Since your goal is a pet or companion animal, the biggest difference for you btwn a GSP and a Vizsla is the emotional neediness of the two (and I think connoisseurs of the respective breeds would agree with this): Vizslas absolutely demand to be full partners in any family they participate in, they will not tolerate being merely an addition to their families or mere baubles, but actual equals. GSP's typically are far more independent and seem to recognize they are dogs. The energy levels, the exercise requirements, etc., are very similar. The real difference..and the one variable I've found that results in them needing to be re homed...is their emotional intensity. A well exercised Vizsla that also does not get enough "Person time" (often on your lap!) will not be at all happy, and their unhappiness will make them very difficult to tolerate.

The real question is how much dog you really want in your life. The rest can be managed, but be clear with yourselves what your actual expectations are and make sure they fit the needs of the breed. Successful Vizsla ownership is a huge emotional commitment, but when properly matched, they will truly change your life in a deeply profound way.
 

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Gingerling said:
Any household with 12 dogs has to be fairly chaotic! I don't necessarily think that's a fair representation of what you might expect.

Since your goal is a pet or companion animal, the biggest difference for you btwn a GSP and a Vizsla is the emotional neediness of the two (and I think connoisseurs of the respective breeds would agree with this): Vizslas absolutely demand to be full partners in any family they participate in, they will not tolerate being merely an addition to their families or mere baubles, but actual equals. GSP's typically are far more independent and seem to recognize they are dogs. The energy levels, the exercise requirements, etc., are very similar. The real difference..and the one variable I've found that results in them needing to be re homed...is their emotional intensity. A well exercised Vizsla that also does not get enough "Person time" (often on your lap!) will not be at all happy, and their unhappiness will make them very difficult to tolerate.

The real question is how much dog you really want in your life. The rest can be managed, but be clear with yourselves what your actual expectations are and make sure they fit the needs of the breed. Successful Vizsla ownership is a huge emotional commitment, but when properly matched, they will truly change your life in a deeply profound way.
Well-stated.

Bill
 

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I apologize for causing this problem in the thread. I have read every response. Bill already has my appreciation. To Muzza I agree with the experienced people here. Visiting different breeders and perhaps even rescues who can give advice about temperament and so forth.

Please keep us informed as to your choice. As to not get off topic I will be happy to pm you if the mods permit and show me how. Thanks
 

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Please don't feel like you've caused a problem, cuddlebuglove. We're bound to get off topic from time to time. Anything related to vizslas, GSPs, or what they end up doing is perfectly on topic and permitted. And certainly anything else the original poster wants to discuss here is fine! :)

To PM, you can go to the top of the forum and hover over My Messages, and then click on Send a Message. Then you can type in the username of the person you want to message, a subject, and then your message below. Hope this helps!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Hello everyone,

After lengthy discussions and research on both breeds, my fiance and i have decided on a GSP.

We have been in communication with a breeder in country Victoria, Australia and have decided that this breed will be best for us.

We are after a solid liver bitch and after extensive patience and research, we have located our future puppy.

Originally from New Zealand, the bitch will be coming in within the next few months and will be potentially be mating with a champion from South Australia.

Looking at hoping our little girl towards the latter end of the year.

We are both excited and here comes the fun stuff of researching accessories..collars,leads, food, beds etc. (feel free to add advise on any of these)

Thanks to everyone again for all your input.

PS. Promise to keep all updated on the progress!

Cheers

Evan
 

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That's great. I am so very happy for You! CJ the GSP winner is quite striking indeed and will certainly raise more interest in the breed. One can hope that someday you will be ready for a Vizsla; these dogs play well together -the few videos that I have seen depict lots of play.
 

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WOWO1973 said:
Hello everyone,

After lengthy discussions and research on both breeds, my fiance and i have decided on a GSP.
Hey Evan,

Good on you and Muzza for doing your research to find the best match. Smart!

GSPs are really fine dogs. I doubt you'll be disappointed.

Since you ask for advice, I'll offer up some.

One. For sporting dogs like GSPs and Vizslas it is very important to keep their nails trimmed short. This need is well-understood with-in performance dog circles, but the message has not spread into the general public as of yet. Not in the USA anyway.

GSPs have very dark nails generally, and an all-liver GSP is almost certainly going to be so, that means being able to see "the quick" is difficult. As a result, many GSPs don't get regularly trimmed and I've seen many with curled-over nails (with crippling consequences). Tragic, really.

I'd advise getting a dremel grinding tool with a drum-sander head and a cone-shaped stone (the former better for big moves, the latter for shaping) and conditioning the puppy in advance to the tool and the sound as a "positive" (reenforcing with praise and treats before using).

As researchers, look on the web for the many articles and videos on the subject of conditioning dogs/puppies for the dremel and the importance of nail trimming (generally). When one starts the process early, and in a very positive fashion (proceeding slowly) it not only sets up a good life-long experience for trimmings to be regular and easy, but starting early also keeps quicks from growing out inordinately along with overly-long nails. It is much easier to "maintain" short nails than it is to get quicks to recede (although the latter is possible with vigilance, it is also a PITA).

The dremel is better (vs clippers) because GSP quicks are usually very hard to see, which makes clipping nerve-wracking for most people, often painful for dogs, and therefore often neglected. Not a good thing to neglect IMO. Inform yourself and decide.

Two. GSPs and Vizslas are very "mouthy" as puppies. They have very sharp needle-like teeth and it is the most natural thing in the world for them to desire to chew on you (as they would with their former litter-mates). How to deal with this is a matter of some controversy, although I think it ought not be.

I'm firmly of the opinion that from early puppyhood through late puppyhood the most important part of a puppy's education is what is now called "bite inhibition." I've believe this was true long before there was a name for it, but you can look up Ian Dunbar's writings on the matter. He is one of the most prominent animal behaviorist in the world, and it is also his position that bite inhibition is the single important part of a puppy's education.

You can look up Dunbar's method. While sharing his goals, I'd depart from his method (things like saying "Oww!," which strike me as rewarding puppies though drama/negative attention.

So when your GSP starts chewing on you, as she surely will, rather than trying you withdraw your hand from her grasp (which can tear skin) instead (with no drama, and no excessive force) go deeper with you hand into her mouth. The slight discomfort/pressure will cause the pup to relax, at which point the hand can be slightly backed off (but left inside the mouth).

If/when gently inserting ones hand deeper is insufficient (as will likely be the case) then one can (in the gentlest possible fashion, and with no drama) fold the pups muzzle over her teeth with your hand being inside her mouth. There ought be no pressure from you, but if the pup bites down (as she will) she will feel their needle-like teeth on the soft membranes of her inner cheeks, and she will learn it hurts and will learn to inhibit her bites as a direct response.

This method is designed to be "a process" that takes time (by intention). We used to call it training for a soft mouth. IMO this is training every puppy should get, but it is not standard. Too many people will strongly reprimand puppies who put their teeth on skin. This might work to "stop" the behavior in the instant, but misses the bigger-picture objective of training a dog not to bite.

Those dogs lacking such training (such as those reprimanded for any teeth on skin) as pups have no "inhibition training" if a stimulus overwhelms the negative training, say for example a child steps on a tail or pulls on an ear. Some may say getting ones hand regularly (many times daily) into the pup's mouth, as a strongly advocate doing, is just training a pup that it is OK to chew on people, I can tell you the opposite is true. A puppy who you spend the time with in this method, which means getting your hand in the pup's mouth a lot, will be the most trust-worthy dog with the softest mouth possible. This is the best single bit of advice I can offer you.

Three. You will go through puppy collars and the like. I'd advise using a collar with a proper buckle as opposed to a "quick release," as these latter styles can break open at the worst possible times. Just not safe IMO.

I prefer collars with a "center ring," so two straps that connect on one end by wrapping around a metal ring (and are riveted) and joined on the other end via a buckle. The center ring collars have the potential capacity to flip if a dog gets tangled on something like brush, so are a safety feature for dogs in the field. We have these types of collars in both leather (to please the wife) and in blaze-orange biothane (a strong plastic material) for the field (and the beach). We have an outfit here in the USA (Gun Dog Supply) that rivets on stamped brass identification plates, which is a better option than dangling tags for dogs in the field. Maybe you have a place in Oz?

I'll keep food talk to the minimum. There are many raw feeders in Australia (where the modern movement started). If you are interested I'd advise looking into the Prey Model variation vs BARF (which includes too much bone, too many carbohydrates and plant-based foods IMO, and too many ground item, which remove dental benefits IMO).

If raw is not workable, I'd look for formulas that maximize protein and fats, and minimize carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are not a dog's friend. Ideally a kibble would be at or over 30% protein and 20% fat. There is a freeze-dried NZ food called Ziwipeak that is absurdly expensive here, so probably $$$$$ there too. I wish I had me some kangaroo.

Do keep the GSP lean. In the latter puppy stage you should brace yourself for negative comments about your girl being "so skinny." If your not getting such future comments, you might want to cut back ;)

I've probably blathered too much. Use your inner-intelligence. Kindness and consistency with the puppy will pay huge dividends. It is a marathon not a sprint.

All the best,

Bill
 

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Yay Bill! What information! ;D. However, I am wondering if Orijen is available for Muzza. After all, you really said good things about it I like the North GMOS factor. Since it's Canadian based and Australia and Canada are both Commonwealth countries, maybe it's available there. Good life withthat.

One question; is a liver GSP the spotted one that we see (like CJ) or a solid color. Just curious. Thank you.
 

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cuddlebuglove said:
Yay Bill! What information! ;D. However, I am wondering if Orijen is available for Muzza. After all, you really said good things about it I like the North GMOS factor. Since it's Canadian based and Australia and Canada are both Commonwealth countries, maybe it's available there. Good life withthat.

One question; is a liver GSP the spotted one that we see (like CJ) or a solid color. Just curious. Thank you.
The liver GSPs are solid brown.

Not sure what kibbles are available in Australia. I envy the availability of lamb-trim, kangaroo, and would happily reduce the pesky rabbit populations down under ;)

Bill
 

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The Bunnies maybe varmints to Australia but I do adore them and will forgive your faux pas :eek: I hope that it will be alright if Muzza tells us all what puppy food her breeder is giving her puppies or has fed them in the past.
Thanks for clarifying about the coloring. I asked because all I have ever seen are the GSPS that look like CJ.
 

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cuddlebuglove said:
The Bunnies maybe varmints to Australia but I do adore them and will forgive your faux pas :eek: I hope that it will be alright if Muzza tells us all what puppy food her breeder is giving her puppies or has fed them in the past.
Thanks for clarifying about the coloring. I asked because all I have ever seen are the GSPS that look like CJ.
There is a fair amount of variation in coats among GSPs, ranging from those that are nearly all white (save their brown heads) who exhibit the influence of (English) Pointers, some of which was foundational in creating GSPs and some is clandestinely modern, to those that are all liver. But there are GSPs with all ranges of "ticking" in between, from white dogs with brown licking to brown dogs with white ticking. There are also black GSPs, a coloring that is a DQ in the USA, but accepted in Germany.

I rather like some of the darker GSPs (with white ticking), but there are so many good variations its is hard to choose.

An all-liver GSPs looks remarkably similar to a Vizsla x Weimaraner cross, should you ever see one. All these dogs, Pointers, GSPs, Vizslas, and Weimaraners share DNA.

Bill
 
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