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Mober said:
Gunnr said:
Mober said:
I can appreciate your viewpoint gunnr, but whose after your shotgun?!

No one is after the shotgun. ...
So then its OK to discuss assault weapons and their role in voilence?
Sure, but I would like you to articulate your actual position on the subject. Gun ownership that is.
You seem to be latching onto esoteric concepts, and trying to present a theoretical argument, but I'm not sure exactly to what end?

There really is no discussion on the violence aspect of any weapon that can be colloquially called an "Assault Weapon". Since virtually every firearm, of any type, can be called an "Assault Weapon" within the context of an individual myopic vernacular, dependent on an a point of view, or political agenda.
You need to define for us exactly what physical designs and functional mechanics you believe constitutes an "Assault Weapon".

Violence is visited in many forms on people, and not always with firearms. Look to the Mideast and Africa. It's done there with rocks, burning tires, machetes, and of course home made bombs. And it is done by the dozen score on occasion.
A firearm, any firearm, by design can extend a great amount of violence.There is no debate here. It is the nature, and purpose, of the tool.
Simply because a firearm can be be preconfigured with large capacity magazines does not make it any more, or less,suited to accomplish violence. It just facilitates ease by an untrained user. In the right hands a bolt action rifle, or one with smaller magazine capacity can be just as effective as a semiautomatic with a large capacity magazine.

I would ask you to please define your position.
 

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I do seem to be stuck in a rat hole discussion with those that categorically won't discuss guns' role in violence at all and try very hard to justify why. You appeared to throw down with your comment, which is why I asked why the concern over your shotgun.

It is indeed true one could drop ricin in a subway or knife kids in China or machete enemies in their sleep in Africa. However none of those happened in Newtown, or in Aurora, or in Arizona. If it did, we would and should be discussing why and how something like that happened.

Your point about the bolt action rifle seems sensible, however the fact that it has to be in the right hands shrinks the pool of crazy idiots out there that can pull off a mass killing. And seems to reinforce there should be restrictions on large capacity magazines as it increases the pool of crazies that can use it effectively.

But I am not proposing I know the answer. I am not proposing I know the exact definition of an assault weapon that would have the right impact on violence, if at all. I am not an anti-gun advocate. I support sensible gun ownership. And I think we all should be willing to discuss the role of guns in violence. I am proposing that folks don't dig into gun defense mode and refuse dialogue. Seems to me gun experts would play an important role in the dialogue, if they would be willing to participate.
 

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Mober said:
I suppose next you will state Obama is like one of those guys on your "list" so "prepping" makes sense. Its all gun nut fantasy land - defending against the government, poking guns out your windows holding off katrina looters, teachers pulling glocks out of their desks and mowing down an armed intruder. I think this is it, you guys are right, its not the guns, its the gun culture, wild wild west, tin foil hat, john wayne paul revere crap. And then we wonder how stuff like this happens. I am having a hard time not being disgusted.
Me too, but for different reasons.
I think its time for me to walk away from this thread.
Due to age and wisdom, I don't care to stoop to your level.
 

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Mober said:
I suppose next you will state Obama is like one of those guys on your "list" so "prepping" makes sense. Its all gun nut fantasy land - defending against the government, poking guns out your windows holding off katrina looters, teachers pulling glocks out of their desks and mowing down an armed intruder. I think this is it, you guys are right, its not the guns, its the gun culture, wild wild west, tin foil hat, john wayne paul revere crap. And then we wonder how stuff like this happens. I am having a hard time not being disgusted.
I think that is quite unjust, Attacking me for merely reciting history and knowing that history repeats itself. I said nothing about our current administration. I am not so naive to think that there is no evil and corruption in the world around us. To the contrary, blindly believing that everything will be fine because whichever government one is subject to says so is naive at best, dangerous at worst. To blindly believe that putting up a sign that says Gun free zone, Drug free Zone keeps Guns or Drugs out is naive. What might the toll have been had one of those teachers been able to return fire? We'll never know.

To those who think small arms can have no impact in a conflict in 2012, pshaw. One rifle shot can and has changed history. Literally Millions of Americans are armed. In most cases in history, the government is not overthrown by the people, but by the military which are further supported by the populous. Study History. It's amazing to see correlations again and again.

Mober, since you seem bent on the attack, whilst deceptively promulgating that you are not anti-gun, I gather you've never served in action in unstable regions brought about by tyrannical governments, or your viewpoint would be different. I've had military service abroad in a hot zone as a member of a tactical Unit.

I gather you've never been on even a "ride-along" with law enforcement, or your viewpoint would likely be different. I know from several years firsthand experience as a Deputy Sheriff that as hard as the police try, we are rarely, very rarely able to stop violence, only instead hunt down the perpetrators after the crime has occurred.

I know that I'm responsible for my own defense. I know how long it takes for help to arrive after that dispatch call. I want as much firepower at my disposal as I need to defend myself and my family from evil. Say what you will about your perception of this "gun fanatic, wild west, tinfoil crapper". I've walked that mile. Have you?

Ken
 

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Mober, it looks like you're just wanting to pick a fight and not have a civil discussion, so in that case I'm done.
 

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Emotions are raw. For the most part the posts lately have been articulate and intelligent. Much beyond cute puppy pictures.

I admit to falling into the ideological pull. Right now I am watching, on Netflix, the last episode of the first season of "The Boss". A fictionalized story of a current mayor of Chicago and politics of Illinois. Ugly really. How us, normal citizens, filter the facts from the manufactured stories, is getting tough. Political Science has gotten REALLY GOOD.

Proud of those who can see past the emotional pictures painted and who can articulate it better than me. We can't bury our head in the dirt.
 

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In any case, guns don't kill.

People on drugs, just might use guns in ways that were never intended to be used :( Friend worked for the coroner's office, they see violent crime as a drug and alcohol related problem, for the most part.
 

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Mober said:
@ threeshf
You couldnt possibly have read posts then.
Maybe not,,,,but I have.
keep it civil or I'll lock the thread.
 

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WillowyndRanch said:
Mober said:
I suppose next you will state Obama is like one of those guys on your "list" so "prepping" makes sense. Its all gun nut fantasy land - defending against the government, poking guns out your windows holding off katrina looters, teachers pulling glocks out of their desks and mowing down an armed intruder. I think this is it, you guys are right, its not the guns, its the gun culture, wild wild west, tin foil hat, john wayne paul revere crap. And then we wonder how stuff like this happens. I am having a hard time not being disgusted.
I think that is quite unjust, Attacking me for merely reciting history and knowing that history repeats itself. I said nothing about our current administration. I am not so naive to think that there is no evil and corruption in the world around us. To the contrary, blindly believing that everything will be fine because whichever government one is subject to says so is naive at best, dangerous at worst. To blindly believe that putting up a sign that says Gun free zone, Drug free Zone keeps Guns or Drugs out is naive. What might the toll have been had one of those teachers been able to return fire? We'll never know.

To those who think small arms can have no impact in a conflict in 2012, pshaw. One rifle shot can and has changed history. Literally Millions of Americans are armed. In most cases in history, the government is not overthrown by the people, but by the military which are further supported by the populous. Study History. It's amazing to see correlations again and again.

Mober, since you seem bent on the attack, whilst deceptively promulgating that you are not anti-gun, I gather you've never served in action in unstable regions brought about by tyrannical governments, or your viewpoint would be different. I've had military service abroad in a hot zone as a member of a tactical Unit.

I gather you've never been on even a "ride-along" with law enforcement, or your viewpoint would likely be different. I know from several years firsthand experience as a Deputy Sheriff that as hard as the police try, we are rarely, very rarely able to stop violence, only instead hunt down the perpetrators after the crime has occurred.

I know that I'm responsible for my own defense. I know how long it takes for help to arrive after that dispatch call. I want as much firepower at my disposal as I need to defend myself and my family from evil. Say what you will about your perception of this "gun fanatic, wild west, tinfoil crapper". I've walked that mile. Have you?

Ken
My "attack" is asking you to consider a dialogue on weapons in the context of the recent shootings? Being offended that you will not because in 2012 America you are protecting the country from tyranny? Psshaw? Psshaw alright! I have never stated I want guns to be banned. I have never stated you shouldn't be able to defend your home. In fact I feel strongly that in many cases its a necessity. I don't believe one needs an arsenal of semi-automatic weapons to defend themselves against the likliest threats to safety, however. But haven't even stated I want assault guns banned. I am taking offense that to secure your piece of mind, to indulge your views, we cannot even discuss guns and what might be able to be done about the means to these kinds of incidents like Newtown.
 

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This thread is going nowhere apart from cat-calling...Thread closed
 
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