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Discussion Starter #1
This is a deeply controversial topic. Please understand that I am trying to reach out and understand something unfamiliar to me.

I am not looking for quotes or advocacy articles.

There are going to be loud calls for bans on assault weapons in the coming weeks and months. I am wondering why reasonable people like some of us here 8) might object to such a ban. What purpose do such weapons serve in your life or in the lives of people you know? Does anyone use such weapons to hunt? Does anyone need to?

We can kill this thread if it gets too political, though I am hoping that we can all work really hard to prevent it from getting heated by refraining from emotion/accusation/slams on politicians and lobbying organizations.

Apologies for going off-topic.
 

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The simple answer is that the second amendment is for a well armed public militia, it has nothing to do with hunting, rather to protect our freedom - and if one studies the founders the primary focus of that need for protection was from our own government (tyranny).

Ken
 

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I don't think that helps answer the question. In 1787 its was possible to be as well-armed as the government, however in 2012 its is not possible. These notions havent applied for a long long time. However the Constitution did something else, its arranged for a frequently elected government that prevents tyranny from being a possiblility.
 

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Thanks, Ken. Just trying to be sure that I understand.

The reason that people would want to own an assault weapon (and I appreciated Gunnr's insightful comment that this term is ill-defined) has nothing to do with hunting. People should be able to own these weapons because having a well-armed citizenry protects us all from government tyranny.

Is that a decent summary?

Are there other reasons to own an advanced weapon with the ability to kill many people in a short timeframe?

I am not trying to bait. I am trying to reach outside my usual circle of friends (frankly, liberal suburban mothers) to increase my own understanding of a complex issue.

I really appreciate attempts to explain a different point of view.

Thanks,
v.
 

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VictoriaW

The term "Assualt Rifle/Weapon" has no true definition. It is a term that became popular during the 80's and 90's with politicians and news reporters, generally those considered to occupy a leftist viewpoint. It really gained traction after the attempted assasination of Ronald Reagan which left James Brady paralyzed from the waist down.It was meant to evoke fear, and elicit an emotional reponse, in a broad spectrum of society that had/have no formal training, or education, in the use of firearms.
Subsequent to the failed assasination attempt, an Act, known as the Brady Act, or Bill,was passed. Banniing, by make and manufacturer, specific weapons deemed to be "Assault Weapons". This list was compiled by politicians. The list was also indicative of a frustrated position of key Congressman, and Senators, whom wanted not a list, but an expanded definition, which at the time would have essentially made it illegal to own virtually any firearm in the US. They knew it,a nd they admitted publicly that their position was to ban all gun ownership, by all citizens, of any type of firearm in the US.
Since that time, other that Roe vs. Wade,a nd Griswold vs. Connecticut, no other piece of legislation has been as controversial.
Time and again the same politicians that wanted to ban gun ownership outright, have tried to ammend this bill to facilitate their initial objective. Each time there have been big legal fights against them led by groups that support their Second Ammendmant rights. it's a siege mentality on both sides, and neither can, or will yield.

Do I think that people really need to own high capacity autoloading pistols and rifles? No I don't . However, because of the inclusive definition some of our elected representatives want to adopt into law to define the term "Assault Weapon", I must support their right, to retain my right to own any of the shotguns I currently own, and not be made into a Felon the day the legislation is passed.
Every firearm I own is legally obtained, and registered in Connecticut. All are registered with the state. I'm not a survivalist, doomsday, whacko, or a gun nut. I'm just a guy that wants to retain his right to hunt birds with my dogs.

Ironically enough, in the Newtown tragedy, one very fundamental law was broken by the shooters own mother.
In the state of Connecticut the storage and securing of fireams inside your own home is subject to regulation All Firearms must be stored with tamper proof trigger locks, or locked, in a safe to prevent the unathorized use of the firearm. This specifically is intended for households with underage, minor, children. Anyone less than 21 years of age.
 

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The Assault weapons are not the problem, you can do just as much with a hand gun if you wanted to. And if the were not leagal I wouldn't be able to own a weapon, but I am sure some one who wanted to kill people would still be able to get one. There are a lot of things that are against the law that are very easily purchased. I like my right to own a fire arm and I hope I never loose that right.
 

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If your wanting to know if any members own semiautomatic firearms, and some of the reasoning for owning. We own them in pistol and rifle form. We also own a business. Nothing like having the alarm go off at 2 in the morning. Your husband puts on a ballistic vest, picks ups his gun and heads out the door into the night.
My husband and son/daughter are avid shooters and just like to go shoot targets. Its a skill that hopefully they will never need other than for hunting.
Our guns are not just left out, they stay in a gun safe when not in use. Only my husband and I know the combination.
 

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Vida said:
Are our lives in the Uk any worse for not owning guns??
I doubt it.
(At least you can get real malt vinegar for your fish and chips there. Our vinegar in the US sucks for fish and chips. I haven't had decent fish and chip since I left Scotland in 1984.;D)
From what little I do understand about the UK ,and guns, Gun ownership is allowed, but there are high fee's, or taxes??? associated with it?

If you feel you're not any worse off, you're not.
 

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During hurricane Katrina, I was one of the most popular people on the block because me and my guns were able to provide protection for our lively hoods when there was no rule of law. No police, no national guard; just thugs, looters and responsibly armed citizens. For about a week and a half we had to hold down the fort until government funded assistance showed up. There were several situations were we could have and would have been run over by criminal mobs had we not been armed.
 

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Mober said:
However the Constitution did something else, its arranged for a frequently elected government that prevents tyranny from being a possiblility.
History would argue with that point. History is littered with "Elected" leaders that are infamous for their tyranny and governmental powers takeover.

Amin, Hitler, Chavez, Obote, Kaunda, Santa Anna, Castro, Hussein, Khameni, Mussolini, Franco, Tito, Lukashenko... for a few of the many examples.
Ken
 

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Do you think you could stand against government forces turned bad?
Could you co-ordinate and consolidate all the other gun owners?
I think civil war would be the outcome..
 

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I suppose next you will state Obama is like one of those guys on your "list" so "prepping" makes sense. Its all gun nut fantasy land - defending against the government, poking guns out your windows holding off katrina looters, teachers pulling glocks out of their desks and mowing down an armed intruder. I think this is it, you guys are right, its not the guns, its the gun culture, wild wild west, tin foil hat, john wayne paul revere crap. And then we wonder how stuff like this happens. I am having a hard time not being disgusted.
 

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Our government let the Brady bill lapse - our government put 2000 guns in the hands of cartel members - our government allows gun shows to continue when most of the guns are sold in the parking lot - I have no problem with a wait for back ground checks - I do have a problem with a government that ignores mental health issues - I do own semi automatic shotguns for hunting & a semi automatic hand gun for home & personal self defense - most of this forum are not hunters - for me it has always been upland birds ducks and geese - my family - friends & pups hunt - this small group has more respect for the environment family values & a moral commitment that we raise our family - that we are responsible for our actions - that our community is a great part of our lives -like it or not - responsible gun owners are the people I would go to in a time of crisis!
 

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It's interesting to read the comments here which people seem to have striven hard not to make political but just express there personal viewpoint.

I think it is fair to say that a lot of people outside America don't 'get' what seems like an obsession with guns. Apart from farmers and hunters (using mostly shotguns) it is very rare for someone to own a gun or have shot in the UK.

What I really don't get is the right to protect yourself. I know if someone planning to commit a crime against me believes there is a good chance of me being armed then they are just going to make sure they are armed themselves. What could have been a crime that I could have walked away from becomes a crime where I have a much higher chance of getting killed. If it is easy for a law abiding citizen to get a gun then it is easy for a criminal to do the same (and that ignores the additional deaths from accidents).

I don't have anything against guns per se or against hunting but you will always have criminals and unstable people in society and I would rather forgo the former to protect us against the latter. This isn't about gun laws - a shooter doesn't care if he broke a law! It's about availability and culture. Massacres of innocents isn't unique to America but the world is losing its surprise (if not its shock) when it hears of another there.
 

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Lively discussion and I hope we can keep our disagreements civil.

(post removed by RBD as being "too political".) :eek:

May our experiment survive, and I will leave it at that.

Rod
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Um, Mober...we were trying to keep this civil. :eek:

And RBD...we were trying to refrain from being too political. :eek:

I'll admit that I have long been in favor of more gun control (and not only to prevent mass shootings). But I have never lived in a rural area, or in a place so remote or so riddled with corruption that a 911 call wouldn't always make more sense than grabbing my own weapon.

As a young adult, I had two women from my college class (out of ~500 women) gunned down, intentionally murdered, within 3 years of graduation. At about the same time, a neighbor's daughter was shot in the head while sitting on the wrong street in the wrong part of Boston. We all have different lives and backgrounds and experiences that form our opinions.

To be entirely honest, not too long ago I would have been one of the mothers shouting JUST TAKE AWAY THE GUNS. But since we began training Gracie to hunt, I have met hunters, and the good people on this forum, and I have gained new respect for a way of life. That is why I started this thread -- I wanted to understand, beyond the rhetoric, why certain types of guns matter to people, and to see what kinds of regulations people who own guns might support, even if the NRA doesn't.

Maybe that's all too much to divulge here, and maybe my motives are just too much at odds with the beliefs of those who fear government regulation. Maybe there is no middle ground.

Maybe it doesn't matter if there is one, because the politicians will never find it. :'(
 

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We are responsible gun owners. I have my consealed weapons permit and if i choose i can conseal carry. My husband is law enforcement and he carries on/off the job. We do have one of those huge fire proof safes that ALL guns are put in when not being carried. I have and will continue to shoot upland bird with my shotguns. Its my right to own a gun and taking ALL the guns away is NOT going to stop them from falling into the hands of the criminals, who dont care about the laws period. If you unarm the public you just make it that much easier for some nut to go on a killing spree. My 2 cents worth....
 

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Thank you, Victoria for opening this discussion. Although this is a Vizsla forum, personally, I think it is an appropriate venue for this type of discussion. I have very little knowledge of guns, and have only recently learned what little I know since I became more familiar with the hunting aspect of my dog. I value the opinions of gun ownership from a forum that has members with extensive knowledge of these firearms and their uses beyond these types of massacres

As far as
Mober said:
I think this is it, you guys are right, its not the guns, its the gun culture, wild wild west, tin foil hat, john wayne paul revere crap. And then we wonder how stuff like this happens. I am having a hard time not being disgusted.
As far as this comment, I have a hard time believing that incidents such as this past Friday have anything at all to do with John Wayne or the Wild Wild West. My grandfather's generation grew up watching John Wayne and the wild wild west and, although they had their problems, I'd say his generation is far less disturbed and less disturbing than my own.

If we are going to place blame on culture (which I believe deserves a large portion of the blame) should we not be blaming it on excessively violent video games, movies, and music that permeate our children's heads on a daily basis? For instance, back in the early part of the last decade, male friends of mine partook in playing a video game called "Grand Theft Auto". The main character of the video game (the player)has the ability to kill whoever was in his path. http://www.gta4.net/weapons/

As far as Hollywood, movies such as The Departed and The Town are two movies that come to mind where prominent actors are seen toting a variety of firearms and they're not all playing police officers or members of the military.

We have become a society that is absolutely obsessed with becoming famous and so many crave attention. It can be seen on numerous tv networks, from american idol to the jersey shore. Facebook is filled with young people posting their whereabouts and personal pictures - there, everyone can be famous in their own little world.

The detachment from reality that comes from video games along with the desensitization of violence coupled with this yearning for attention is what I believe drives people to this point. That along with mental illness, lack of physical activity, and poor parenting. In my opinion, there is a whole list of problems with our culture that can be blamed - the personal possession of guns is not the problem.
 
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