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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hey All :smile

I am curious what the general consensus is on when your puppy is considered an adult. I have read it's at 12 months, but I've also seen it's not until they're full grown. Which means between 15-18 months?

Any V aficionados have an opinion?

Thanks all!
 

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Maybe it's because their growth slows down at that age. I would no longer consider them a puppy at 12 months, but not a full adult either.
Mine have never developed the full width of their chest, until closer to 2-3 years old.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Texasred, you have all the good answers! I should just message you directly ;-) I read they developed slowly, so then from a diet perspective you should switch them to adult food at 12 months. Got it. Thanks again.
 

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Along these same lines, has anyone seen if the chest will continue to fill out if they are neutered at 2 years? I have wondered if that is an age thing or a testosterone thing. I guess it would answer that if a female fills out up until then as well.


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Cash was not neutered until 3 1/2 , and the girls were also spayed later.
I was not considering dogs that had been spayed/neutered before 2.
 

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My smooth V was 2 when we neutered him and he was fully grown and deep chested... after he was neutered he filled out, but not in a good way... prior to the clip job, he was fit, lean, muscular... after, he put weight on very easily and became fat looking.. he will be 5 this year.
His best buddy smooth V who is 4 months younger was neutered at a VERY early age... he has very long legs, and very long feet/paws from elbow to pad... he stayed about 15 lbs less the our pup, but now that he is 4 yrs, as beefed up considerably, and that has happened in just the past year to 18 mo.
I would put them at very close to the same size and weight... they are vertually twins

SO It would be my opinion that a male... reaches adulthood in the 2-3 yrs range, and it doesn't matter when they were neutered.

I now have a wirehair... he is huge for his breed and stands about 29" and weights 80 lbs. he was neutered at age 2 ... I adopted him at 2 1/2
he has matured physically in the year I have owned him. by a lot... he is hairier... more muscular, heavier, as far as his chest size from 2-3 yrs
I have not had to adjust his halter which does circle his chest. but it is not loose, and does leave an indentation on his fur when it is on for any length of time, which it did not do when I first got him and he was 75 lbs.
 

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Mine's 4.5 and still very much a puppy...emotionally anyways.

They tend to grow at their own rate..physically, too...and it's often uneven. If you're asking about food/kibble, that would depend on his activity level, higher protein=muscle development=adult food.

With regards to neutering...I so wish the general consensus on this would change already...there's increasing data to support leaving them intact, testosterone is involved in much more than fertility. So in addition to bone growth and muscle development..things easily seen...there's the metabolic processes that change fairly significantly, too.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
So in regards to neutering, it would appear 2 years is the ideal age to have them clipped? Or is it based on the dog's ability to fill out?
 

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So in regards to neutering, it would appear 2 years is the ideal age to have them clipped? Or is it based on the dog's ability to fill out?
if you absolutely have to do it, I'd at least wait until after 2 so they have all their hormones while their developing. Personally, if I get another male dog again, I won't neuter him ever.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Personally, if I get another male dog again, I won't neuter him ever.
So why do we neuter or spay? I understood this was because "backyard breeders" were over populating, and breeding carelessly diluting down bloodlines. Also, due to irresponsible dog owners whose dogs were loose and either got hurt or injured other animals. Because of these problems Vets and others started down a road of promoting clipping and spaying at 6 months no matter what. Some would say overkill. As an example...I know some friends who just got a dog, he doesn't even have his 12-13 weeks shots and they told me they clipped him already :sad
 

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The main reason there is a big push to spay/neuter at 6 months, is due to overpopulation of unwanted dogs.
They want to do it, before they have a chance to reproduce. Responsible owners need to look at what is best for the dog. I'm not against spay/neuter, but would rather the pup benift from the hormones. Each must make their own decision, based on lifestyle, and the dog.
If I were never going to breed a female, she would probably be spayed by 4 years old. If I had a male that I was not going to breed, and no intact females. He would probably stay intact. If I had intact females, he would be neutered between 2-3 years old. Only because it's a royal pain dealing with the whining, panting, and keeping them separated.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Good feedback folks, this is a topic that definitely needs more social awareness. It's only logical that our furry companions will benefit from having their body parts produce all the necessary hormones to help them grow.

Anyone have experience or an opinion on Zeutering? If so, do you know if the testicles still produce testosterone at 50% or is it complete elimination of production altogether? My vet said it's complete elimination of testosterone while another vet told me it's only 50% reduction.
 

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Ovary sparing surgery (bitch) or vasectomy (dog) is the way to go. Nearly all the benefits of infertility while preserving essential hormones.

Finding a vet who can/will do the procedures is the challenge.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Finding a vet who can/will do the procedures is the challenge.
Yep. i checked into vasectomy it was very hard to find someone in my area. Thanks for the feedback!
 

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Yep. i checked into vasectomy it was very hard to find someone in my area. Thanks for the feedback!
I don't want to put too fine a point on this, but I have strong feelings against neutering, so bear with me.

It's unclear why you feel the need to look into anything here, what are your concerns leaving him as is?
 

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Our boy is intact, and so far that is our aim to keep him like. However if ever needed in the future we would go to the local breeder hospital, they seem to offer the vastectomy and ovary spare spaying. Maybe that is something to look at in your area? Just an idea.
 

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It's unclear why you feel the need to look into anything here, what are your concerns leaving him as is?
As texasred said, the reason vets so strongly recommend neutering now is the result of a deliberate policy to try and reduce the number of unwanted dogs; apparently it has been very successful in this.

So my answer to "your concerns leaving his as is" is simply we all have a responsibility to avoid unwanted pregnancies. Our dogs have very good recall but I would never be confident that I could guarantee 100% reliance when faced with the challenge of a potential mating. Our dogs also spend a lot of time roaming freely and are often out of sight for periods of time while they follow scents etc.

There may be some that feel that as an owner of a dog (as opposed to a bitch), that 'it isn't your problem' as you don't have to deal with the consequences but I believe that's a pretty immoral position to take. It takes two to tango so both sets of owners are equally responsible for an unwanted pregnancy. I'm not suggesting that anybody here is expressing that attitude but I'm sure there are plenty of dog owners who do.

I would turn the question on its head. Why not get your dog sterilised (and note, I said sterilised, not neutered)? A vasectomy is a very minor operation. For a bitch the choice is more difficult as the surgery/recovery is more extensive but for us, we traded that against not having to severely restrict her activity during her heats and the stress of worrying about her getting pregnant if we did attempt to give her some freedom during those times. We chose to go the OSS route after her second heat at the age of about two and a half.
 
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