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Discussion Starter #41
Here is another video

First let me tell you that eCollar is a life saver. Thanks to @gunnr. And now to my question: when we are in the field and i say "sit" or "down" he comes running back to me and does it in front of me, but i want him to do that where he is. We started with very short distance between us, but nonetheless we can't manage to do it. Any ideas how we can train this? I'm also trying to teach him "hold it" but he gets all agitated. He starts chewing on ( i use rolled towel or something soft) or he spits it out, or he even tries to play tug-o-war. Thanks for all your responses. And I hope you are all well!
 

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"And now to my question: when we are in the field and i say "sit" or "down" he comes running back to me and does it in front of me, but i want him to do that where he is."

Jack is doing what he believes he is pleasing you. He has learned that sitting and staying at your side is what pleases you. When you tell him sit/down from a distance, he fills in the gap and comes to you to do it.
From your video, it really appears that you are much closer to achieving your goal than you might realize. He's pretty "solid" in that video. Especially with the other dog running around with you.
To train this behavior start him out at the sit, or down, and then move off. The whole time repeating the command to him. Go a few steps, them a few step more, and so on. At each step in the phase, end by calling him to you, and rewarding with a lot of praise. If he does it wrong, just walk him back to the exact point he was at and start again. Remember that he thinks he pleasing you, so go gentle on the correction until he catches on. Keep do ing this over and over.
What you are "teaching" Jack is that he can sit/down at a place other than right at your side, or in front of you, AND that it pleasing and acceptable to you.".
Once he get fairly solid at this, do the same thing, but "whoa", or stop him on the way back. It starts out with just three or four steps, but once he figures it out the distance increases quickly.
You will reach a point where Jack is uncomfortable being so far away from you, and he'll "break" back to you out of anxiety. Close the gap a few steps and work on Jack's confidence.
He will eventually become pretty good, and now you begin the enforcement phase. Get 30 meters of 6mm rope and loop it around something solid. Walk away from Jack, so that he is restrained by the rope, but you have the other end in your hand.. Give him his commands to sit/down, from maybe 3 meters away. He cannot come to you because of the rope, and he feels the pressure of the rope so he should obey the command. As soon as he sits.down, call him to you and release the rope. Do this repeatedly, while increasing the distance.
When I am "steadying" a young dog to point I use this same technique, but in reverse. I don't want the dog to "break" away from me. I will run a piece of small rope, or flat web through their collar, and and back to my hand. After the initial point, the dog naturally wants to rush in, it, but it can't. I'll then steady the dog, give him the command to easy/whoa and let the rope slip through my hand slowly as the dog works out the scent. You want the dog to establish point, but not "creep". It's kind of a fine line. The same technique is also used on the fetch command.
Eventually everything comes together and the dog learns, not to creep ( Solid on Point), not to chase ( Steady to wing), and fetch, (Retrieve) on command. It doesn't take as long as I'm making it seem.
The eCollar can absolutley be used during this complete phase.

I'm really glad you like the eCollar. It makes it so much better for both Jack and you.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
@gunnr we also do "sit" while walking "heel". We walk, i say sit, and then i proceed forward.. few meters ahead of him i say "heel" and we continue our walk. All in motion. Or i stop and use recall command. So from what i read (and understood) in your comment this is also going to help us? I can not put in words how much i enjoy working with him. And i love to watch him how he is eager to learn.
 

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Whatever you are doing is working. That video clearly shows that the two of you are making tremendous progress. Jack is looking to you for direction, and that is very important.
All of the discipline training you've been doing is going to to finally kick in with Jack. He just needs a little time to put everything together. He will begin to "fill in gaps" on his own, and then you'll make the next big training breakthrough.
Commanding a dog at a distance just takes time and repetition, but it's really kind of eerie once it clicks. Work him slowly, and see where you get.
Stay on the path you have already set for yourself with Jack, and introduce new things slowly. Find what works, and what doesn't work.
I think you're doing great.
 

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Hi everyone. I am new here and i have few questions about my dear Jack. Jack is a 10 months old viszla(neutered) and he lost his human. He was in really good hands and they did some training as well with him. But i think he was the boss of the house. I met the coach they were working with and with him he obeys perfectly. He showed me what they were working on. Now to the fun part. I just can not stop him from pulling the leash like crazy. I tried turning 180, walking to oposite direction, try not to pull him to hard. I have treats, sometimes i put them right in front of his nose, just to get attention, but his focus is only on the dog. Usually when we are alone or we are working inside he is crazy about them. I posted a short clip for you dear forum people to see. I didn't have strength any more, because if (like i said before) i tried to turn around and walk the opposite direction, he janked me really hard back to his focus. I know he must be overwhelmed with the situation, loosing his owner, switching houses, etc... I've read a lot about viszlas and positive reinforcment.... but in this situation? How on earth? So if there is someone who can help us get on track and start enjoying our walks i would really appreciate it.
And yes: i am sorry for all the gramatical mistakes. English is not my first language.
Thank you 😊
I have been a Viszla owner for 54 years and never had one that didn't pull on the leash to start with. All of my Vizslas ended up not pulling on it within days. Also, all of my Vizslas have been and are very happy dogs and extremely well adjusted. I often take them to small dog parks and we get all kinds of praise. I never hurt any of them but I do annoy them when necessary. Positive training is fine until it is not..... then an unpleasant reward for not complying is a must. In my case, and depending on the particular dog, spray bottles worked most of the time but some Vizslas required more. In that case I used a 3 feet 1/8 inch hardwood dowel to tap (not wack) them on the head just before stopping. Three or four one tap and the waving of the stick was enough to stop pulling and earn a reward. The key elements are consistency and a pleasant rearward for a good job or an unpleasant consequence for a bad job. You can use your imagination if my ideas don't agree with yours. Now I'm ready to hear about cruelty to animals.....
 

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"Now I'm ready to hear about cruelty to animals....."

The cruelty comes in when you have an un-solid, or half trained dog, that runs into traffic in the road.
Better to learn a lesson with a few taps on the noodle, from an 1/8" dowel, than the bumper, or front wheel,of a vehicle.
I actually used a manure fork with Finn this past winter. It was there, and it worked.;)
I've never used a squirt bottle, only because I do not want to instill any type of water shyness in them
 

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Discussion Starter #47
The only thing i didn't like with his trainer, was when we were doing command down and after few minutes when he decided that it's enough... was a harsh correction. (At least i saw it that way) In my perspective, we were only getting used to one another... and to shake the **** out of him for that. I don't know. It didn't feel right. I am somewhere in between. Not entirely just for positive reinforcment and not for some harsh, let's call it old school training. If you know what i mean. Not dissing his trainer, she has experience in training police dogs amd also service dogs.. it's just...i couldn't connect with her. So we've stopped going there. And when we did and i started doing things on my own and how i thought it will best resonate with us, that's when i started seeing progress. He gets a correction when it's needed and he gets lots of praise for the right things.
 

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It's very interesting to read all of these opinions, occurrences and problems. I have owned Vizslas since 1966 and hunted with them all over the country for over 50 years and never lost one. Like most of us this old, I never used a professional trainer, radios, GPS or an ecollar and I never chased any of them unless plying. When not hunting birds, my Vizslas chased deer, moose, bear, rabbits,skunks, coyotes....you name it but I never tried to stop them. It seems they knew how far to chase and when to come back....sometimes it took over ten minutes or so and yes, I worried stiff in the beginning. But while hunting birds they never did for any length of time or distance. It seems that they knew today we were hunting (the gun maybe) and not just running around having fun.
I guess probably the major reasons for me not having these kind of problems ever are 1) I was always THE VERY STRONG LEADER, 2) They were train to check on me constantly and they obeyed voice and hand signals, 3) I trusted them to find me and 4) Luck I guess..
 

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Discussion Starter #51
Have to add that I specifically searched for a place that have deer enclosure near my town. So we drove there, he saw them, surprised me big time.... I expected that he would go nuts.
 
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