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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone. I am new here and i have few questions about my dear Jack. Jack is a 10 months old viszla(neutered) and he lost his human. He was in really good hands and they did some training as well with him. But i think he was the boss of the house. I met the coach they were working with and with him he obeys perfectly. He showed me what they were working on. Now to the fun part. I just can not stop him from pulling the leash like crazy. I tried turning 180, walking to oposite direction, try not to pull him to hard. I have treats, sometimes i put them right in front of his nose, just to get attention, but his focus is only on the dog. Usually when we are alone or we are working inside he is crazy about them. I posted a short clip for you dear forum people to see. I didn't have strength any more, because if (like i said before) i tried to turn around and walk the opposite direction, he janked me really hard back to his focus. I know he must be overwhelmed with the situation, loosing his owner, switching houses, etc... I've read a lot about viszlas and positive reinforcment.... but in this situation? How on earth? So if there is someone who can help us get on track and start enjoying our walks i would really appreciate it.
And yes: i am sorry for all the gramatical mistakes. English is not my first language.
Thank you 馃槉
 

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I normally upload my videos to YouTube first
Then I can share the link here
 

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looking forward to see the video. at 10 months it is very normal for them to pull. on top of that as u mentioned he has gone thru a huge change. so try first and build a relationship with him, practice a lot at home and slowly and gradually take him to other places, setting expectations of not pulling for a 30 seconds, reward, sniff, then a minute walk, then let him sniff etc. consider these sessions as training at this point and not as a walk you would do with a mature trained dog, as your perspective of enjoyable walk is different from his at this point.
any chance u can let him run his energy before these sessions? that usually helps focusing a lot.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Today we went early in the morning. Since it is still really dark outside and no people around, we went to dog park first. Played with ball for about half an hour, then proceeded with our walk for another half an hour. I constantly changed the direction, the second he started pulling I turned around. It was somehow managable. And then to finish it off, we went back to dog park and played again for about 20 min. I will upload a video of our yesterday's walk when daschund was around so you can see what i was talking about. I was trying to put the leash around me just to gain some control and strength. With his coach that the previous owner worked with, he didn't even notice any other dogs. And i know i am not doing this correctly, just really want to get a hand on this properly, not to cause any more stress to Jack. (I do think that i am doing that right now) :(


 

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I would use a half hitch on him, to get a little more control. Atleast until he starts to get a better idea of what is being asked of him.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I will try this out and see how it goes. Thanky for advice.
But i have to say something else as well. The way he looks at me sometimes.... i have this feeling he's completly scaning me and taking mental notes 馃槀
 

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I will try this out and see how it goes. Thanky for advice.
But i have to say something else as well. The way he looks at me sometimes.... i have this feeling he's completly scaning me and taking mental notes 馃槀

He is doing exactly that!!
Many years ago when I got Gunnr, her owner too had passed away. Gunnr was with a trainer when we went up and got her. She was 11 months old at the time.
That dog did not look me in the eye for months. Not once. She would look to see where I was, glancingly, but she never looked directly at me.
Start off with him in the house, with little to no distractions, especially another dog. Put him on his leash in the house and walk him at the heel. Keep working with him free of distractions. Lots of praise for anything good, and just a non emotional correction for the not good, but always finish on the positive.
Never, ever, let any dog pull you. The moment he pulls, you mentally turn yourself into a fence post, or tree. You do not break your feet. Put yourself in a solid, weighted ,position and you just stand there, immobile. He wants to keep pulling against that collar and choke himself, let him. You do not move. He will correct himself, or stop breathing. It's up to him. This is kind of a mental game for you, but you can do it. A very small person can mentally convince1200 lbs of horse to not pull, the same can be done with a 60 lb dog. ;)
The moment he back off a little back, you bring him back to you. You don't go to him. There should always be slack in a leash, no matter the length. Pulling is a very bad habit, that can cause injury to the handler. He's got a lot of power, and he could easily pull you off your feet, if you were unbalanced, and hurt you.
If the trainer/coach has him under control. I would work with the trainer coach for awhile, with the dog. Basically, you would be the one being "trained", so don't let your ego get involved. It's the dog that has priority.
The half hitch that Texas Red mentioned is the same technique I use, but you'll need a different leash.The leash comes off their collar, goes toward the back end, loops under the abdomen and then comes back up to your hand. It needs to be wide 25-30mm so it doesn't pinch and bind.
Stop using the collar you currently have and get a 25mm wide, leather D ring safety collar for quick leash work, and short trips.
You need a harness. Put him in the harness and attach the leash to the harness. 60% of a dogs power comes from the front end. Pick up the front end, and they can't pull. It's also easier to pull them back to you and get them in frame for the heel.
In America we have a device called a Halti Leash. It's an adaption of a bitless, or war, bridle for horses. I personally do not like them but they do work very well. I don't like them because they put the dog in an un-natrual heel position in my mind. That's just my personal opinion though.
Last resort is a choke, or pinch collar. If you are not very experienced with these collars, do not use them without guidance. You can do severe damage to a dog used incorrectly. It would be months of non compliance with other methods and collars, before you would progress to this type of collar. Some people use them straight off the bat, but some people will also shank a horse just"because".

Give things time, but do get in touch with the trainer and have them work with you and the dog.
 

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Very nice!!
Your boy has a pretty significant training foundation for you to work from.You're very fortunate. ;)
His posture, attitude, and stride all suggest that he knows exactly what a "halti"or, gentle leader, style halter is.
I think that once he matures a little bit more, and you get the correct type of lead device, that he is used to ,back on him, the majority of your problems are going to go away very quickly.
Vizsla's are somewhat "slow to mature". They get their size, strength, and athleticism quick enough, and the hunting lines have the prey drive instinct that kicks in right off the bat, but that over exuberant "puppiness" is with them for awhile. They're very playful even into their senior years.
He's a very well put together young lad. He's big for 10 months and neutered. (I also have one of those oil filled radiators also for our parrots, so I have a good idea how big he is.)
I think the two of you are going to be just fine in a few weeks. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
This morning it was somewhat perfect. And then came the afternoon and the teenager came out and we were back on point zero (square one? -is this the proper saying?). I am also teaching him some new tricks, just to keep him thinking. We do hiding to further improve bonding and to get a base for recall as well. I thought him how to give paw and lay down and commands "wait" and "leave it". He is super smart and eager to learn. But the way he talks back at me when i want him to do something. Like do i really have to?! And yes!!! He's big! We met with some friends and they have male viszla as well. 4 year old and they are almost the same size 馃樁
Thank you again for everything 鈽
 

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Have you tried a front harness? My Lucy is almost 4 & I still have to use harness when I know there are going to be some great distractions or when we run. Lucy is my first Vizsla & the love of my life but I have learned that even though we have done 3.5 years of training there are times when she is so head strong!! Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
We are slowly getting along. His pulling has reduced a bit. He still tries to do it if we are in new environment. I am also working with his previous trainer and the progress is amazing. Such a smart boy. He did try (or he still is from time to time) to do things like he wants them to do and is quite unhappy when he sees he is not the boss. That was one major problem. From what i'm seeing he was allowed to do everything or he got away with everything with his previous owner. There were no boundries. So he did growl at me once when i told him to sit and he had to wait a bit. But i corrected him with a firm no and a quick tug at the collar and put him back on sit. Growling is just not an option. Not for things like this.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Boy oh boy do i have my hands full with this little devil. After initial progress, there came the week i wasn't feeling quite self-confident. And I made a huge mistake and on one of those days I took him on a walk through town with my daughter. All the progress went sour that day. He is quite boisterous, dominant and may I say - choleric. That day I cried my eyes out. It was pure ****. None of that Viszla is the super best dog, caring, velcro, nice etc. in the world.. Pulling on leash, growling at me, growling at other dogs and much much more, it looked like he lost his compass. Jack will teach me more about myself and about how to handle dogs than any experience before. I thought i had some and that i'm not completely new to dog training. I guess this is something that universe is giving me. I have to say my daughter is the same. ( I love her to the moon and back - but she is so strong willed, stubborn, really strong character. She needs strict boundries, routine and consistency otherwise she is over my head.) And guess what i got as a rescue dog!! THE SAME THING. So...i pulled myself back together, accepted the challenge and we are back on track. I adore Jack and there is a long way ahead of us but we are his forever home now.


oh and one more thing that gives me hope when he's acting out. His trainer told me, that from what he is seeing i am the right handler for him, but if someone else took him (a bit more mellow) that there would be a high chance that they would give him away again. :/
 

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Jasmina, we all go thru some phases with our vizslas, even not rescued ones, if that helps. Some we tolerate easier, some less. Well done pulling yourself together and keep going. Jack will appreciate some day all that love based perseverance. So will your daughter.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I have one request for anyone who maybe has it. I searched the forum as well but there is only description and since i am more of a visual person i would be really grateful. Jack and I are working on recall (without distractions it is perfect, with them - i can forget i exist), but i would like to see it in a clip - video, how to teach Jack to leave the scent of deer or to not go after them. On our walks through forrest, he is on a long lead (6 meters) and he has a harness on. I do have to keep the leash in hand, otherwise he just takes off and since he is super fast i can't step on the leash in time. So you can imagine what this does to my shoulders :D When i see him getting all excited and he has a scent in his nose I call him to come or if that is not working I pull him towards me and then we do obidience trainig - he has to sit and wait and we only move when he makes eye contact. Just to redirect his focus. I have his toy with me and i try to engage him on our walks and in general make myself more fun than the endearing animals around us. I also tried with a quick correction and a firm "leave it" but to no avail. He knows the command. He did take off and chased them two or three times already and i know this is super rewarding for him and that he was bred to do this, but i was not born with a golden spoon in my mouth to be able to afford his take offs. The fine...if there (hopefully never) would be a case that he would manage to catch and kill a deer... well it is around 2000 euros (2188 dollars).
Also...at the moment we are doing some impulse control exercises at home and in our garden. He has to sit and look at me when i open the door and has to stay in his position until i tell him " ok go". We are doing similar things with food, if i drop the treats to the floor he has to leave them and look at me. The same thing with his feeding. He has to sit until i put the bowl down all the while looking at me and waiting for the "ok go" cue so he can devour his meal.
I promise i will record some of our training for you, people of the greates forum on the web and i will be glad to get some of the feedback.
 

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Deer!!!
I think they are the bane of every bird dog hunter. Followed second by rabbits.
Depending on the drive to prey associated with deer, the process can be mentally fatiguing because you are going to have to move up a few steps in the correction if the drive is strong.
My first Vizlsa, Boone, could take a deer of it's feet. Yes, he really could do that. he loved to chase deer and ruin a bird hunting day.I chased that dog through a swamp for an hour and 45 minutes one day before I finally got a hold of him, and lets just say, there was **** to pay.
I ended up getting some deer hide from friends and" doe in estrus" scent from a hunting supply outfit. I would lay a trail out in the woods, and then come back home, shower, get clean clothes on, and then take Boone out to the area. The moment I knew he had picked up that scent, it was an over the top correction. again and again and again.It really sucked!!
I would leave that deer hide in places he could find it, and if he even began to go near it, it was more over the top correction.
As a final avoidance, training before I would have to send him to a pro, I put him on the bottom 1/2 of a shark pole, a fishing pole used for sharks, with 75' of 2000lb test steel wire.
I took him to a place I knew was full of deer, attached that 2000lb test wire to his harness and waited. about 10 minutes later he spooked a deer and ran after it. he got to the end of that 75' of wire and hit it like a hammer. He looked like a cartoon coming off his feet and pulled me off of my feet. I weighed about 85kilos at the time. For the rest of his life, if he spooked a deer he would chase it for 75', stop and bark.
What I went through is no longer necessary. But the point was to illustrate that it is avoidance training that needs to begin.
In todays world, the electronic collar is the tool that replaces all of that physical correction and the shark pole I used many year ago.
The process will basically involve conditioning him to the e collar, setting up a scenario with scents and lures that mimic deer, and beginning some fairly negative corrections every time he responds to the scent of the deer, and then moving him onto the scent of something good, that he is rewarded for. The e collar makes this so much easier on both the dog and the handler.
Once you are successful in a pre constructed setting, you move outdoors. Using scent lures and baits, you move him to the area, and once he begins to respond, correction begins again. He doesn't need to see the deer, to begin this work. hat will come later naturally. I can guarantee you that long before he "sees" the deer and runs after it, he has already scented it and knows it is in the area. You have to "catch the problem before it begins".
Talk to your trainer and tell them that you need to begin "avoidance training" with Jack. There are many, many books, articles and videos on the process.
Use an ecollar. Don't do it the way I did in ignorance so many years ago. I use an eCollar for this training now, and have since they became available.
You also need to get a longer leash. 2m is too short. A 3m leash is a very nice length, and allows the handler that extra second to get prepared.
Be forewarned, this is not pretty training. There is very little positive about it, except the end result, but it is absolutely necessary for the safety and well being of your dog. It is very easy to visualize that Jack could run deer and get lost, or run one into traffic and be struck by a car. You also could be hurt. I promise you that as a 26 year old man, weighing 85 kilos, when Boone hit the end of that shark pole that day, I felt it for many weeks after in my shoulders. It hurt!!
Good luck and be mentally strong. ;)
 

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Deer!!!
I think they are the bane of every bird dog hunter. Followed second by rabbits.
Depending on the drive to prey associated with deer, the process can be mentally fatiguing because you are going to have to move up a few steps in the correction if the drive is strong.
:eek:eek
We are surrounded by those magical creatures that have such a heavenly smell (or at least thats what Jack thinks :grin ). I will really have to step up. Will follow your advice and talk to his trainer as well so we can start as soon as possible.
His leash is 6 meters long (19ft 8 inches) and is still too short! I have to check for e collar here in slovenia (I found this - The electronic training collar d-control 1000 is an all-purpose model intended for everyday use, for professional sport, police and hunting training. Thanks to its range of 1000 m it is suitable for training and work in broken terrain. It has thirty different stimulation levels and the possibility to choose between the momentary and continuous stimulation. It is possible to use the d-control 1000 to train one or two dogs at once.), but before i use it i need someone who has experience with it so i will not do more damage than good. You had 85 kilos... me - stubborn little bird have only 53kg :grin:grin you can only imagine :grin
I attached the pic - if only i could roam free, but she won't let me :wink
 

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Deer, rabbit, skunks, and the dreaded porcupine really get a dogs attention.
I think they lose some of their hearing, once the nose and chase takes over.
Shine has gotten a ecollar correction, for chasing a rabbit on a bird hunt. So far she has not came upon deer, or hogs. But is very interested in the places they have bedded down. I just send her to the front, to keep running.
 
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