Puppy training collar - Page 2 - Hungarian Vizsla Forums
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-21-2018, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Spy Car View Post
Personally, I only use a harness when I *want* a dog to pull (as with a "roading harness" used with a mature dog for resistance exercise). A dog's natural instinct is to pull against the pressure of a harness.

It is very easy to teach a young pup to heal using positive methods without resort to pulling on harnesses or collars, and that's what I strongly prefer.

That a 10-week old dog can be trained on heel and recall using treats (as Deb states in a PP) makes the point that training harnesses and training collars are unnecessary (and I'd argue are counterproductive) at this age.

Bill
I don't pull on them, they choose to pull, and if you have a untrained dog that never does you are a magician. When they figure out that it is ineffective they stop, and you reward them using positive methods. I use harnesses because it is safer for them during that learning process, and because I certify my dogs in Search and Rescue, I climb mountains with them, I retrieve them from the water while kayaking. None of this can be done safely with a collar.
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-21-2018, 02:57 PM
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I don't pull on them, they choose to pull, and if you have a untrained dog that never does you are a magician. When they figure out that it is ineffective they stop, and you reward them using positive methods. I use harnesses because it is safer for them during that learning process, and because I certify my dogs in Search and Rescue, I climb mountains with them, I retrieve them from the water while kayaking. None of this can be done safely with a collar.
As I said, I use a harness when I *want* my Vizsla to pull (for resistance exercise), as that is a dog's natural instinct and it is a great way to build muscle on a mature dog. So (for me) training a dog not pull with a harness would be counterproductive to my aims.

I can imagine situations where wearing a harness for other reasons would be helpful and, in those situations, I'd simply give a dog a heel command that had been well-learned via other means.

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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-24-2018, 02:23 PM
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Yes, agree with Gingerling. Walking on lead was a lower priority for my pup than learning to come when called, housebreaking etc. With the long time it took to housebreaking my 8 wk old V (over 2 mos to full) I felt that walking on lead was too challenging early on as I found my V too immature for that training and I didn't want to overwhelm her all the other important things she needed to learn. She was much slower in housebreaking than German Shepard's and Labs I've trained and the same went for walking on lead.

When I finally decided it was time to take her on leash to explore the neighborhood (~4mos) I trained her obedience-school style with a choke chain collar and VERY gentle reinforcement on 7ft, or shorter, leash, and on short walks, increasing duration as their attention span can take it.

Walking properly on lead is very challenging for the dog (and walker) in my experience. I'm fortunate to live near a large nature area where mine can go off lead so I've whistle trained her on the come command as well as hand signals for direction. We hike on trails and hills almost daily where she is off lead so she can get enough exercise.

One caution about nylon collars. My 1yr old V developed lumps (under skin) on her throat area where the nylon collar buckle was. My Vet was so concerned that she removed them surgically. Biopsy revealed severe folliculitis. My V has never had any other skin problems whatsoever and wore nylon until ~1yr when we switched to leather.

Now it's only a rolled-leather, loose collar for her. Our vet said she recommends leather for all short haired dogs, and no more problems! Good luck when you do get her walking on lead...it is a challenge as they are excitable and athletic dogs.
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Last edited by 1stVizsla; 03-24-2018 at 02:36 PM.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-24-2018, 02:41 PM
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Yes, agree with Gingerling. Walking on lead was a lower priority for my pup than learning to come when called, housebreaking etc. With the long time it took to housebreaking my 8 wk old V (over 2 mos to full) I felt that walking on lead was too challenging early on as I found my V too immature for that training and I didn't want to overwhelm her all the other important things she needed to learn. She was much slower in housebreaking than German Shepard's and Labs I've trained and the same went for walking on lead.

When I finally decided it was time to take her on leash to explore the neighborhood (~4mos) I trained her obedience-school style with a choke chain collar and VERY gentle reinforcement on 7ft, or shorter, leash, and on short walks, increasing duration as their attention span can take it.

Walking properly on lead is very challenging for the dog (and walker) in my experience. I'm fortunate to live near a large nature area where mine can go off lead so I've whistle trained her on the come command as well as hand signals for direction. We hike on trails and hills almost daily where she is off lead so she can get enough exercise.

One caution about nylon collars. My 1yr old V developed lumps (under skin) on her throat area where the nylon collar buckle was. My Vet was so concerned that she removed them surgically. Biopsy revealed severe folliculitis. My V has never had any other skin problems whatsoever and wore nylon until ~1yr when we switched to leather.

Now it's only a rolled-leather, loose collar for her. Our vet said she recommends leather for all short haired dogs, and no more problems! Good luck when you do get her walking on lead...it is a challenge as they are excitable and athletic dogs.

It goes without saying..or maybe we should... that there isn't any type of attachment to a dog that is or should be a substitute for good training, which requires a trusting bond, and lots of time teaching words and then associating those words to their specific actions/behaviors. A well trained dog doesn't require a lead or attachment for discipline purposes.

How often have we all seen people shouting some command at their dog knowing full well that command has not been adequately taught to the dog, followed by some crude yank on a lead?
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-25-2018, 10:56 PM
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Well, everyone has covered what has worked for them. I will tell you what didn't work for us. I started Amos on the front clip halti harness. The idea behind it is that when they jerk or pull, it turns them around to face you...which is not what they want. So, as a concept, it seemed ideal. Shouldn't encourage the pulling but doesn't jerk on the neck. Unfortunately, despite the harness design, the stop-when-they-pull "tree" tactics, the treats he was oblivious to because his surroundings were way more interesting, and the praise I gave when he allowed slack (which he always took as encouragement to pull more?), he was still a puller two years later. Not only was he pulling but he had developed this unhealthy looking awkward diagonal gate to compensate for the front clip harness that allowed him to still get out in front of me but only pull sort of. After the recommendation of my vet and several friends with dogs, I switched to a choke chain last month. (Yes, it makes him look mean. It makes you look mean, but the vet said the correction they receive from it is less than the correction they would receive from their mother as a pup or another dog while playing).

He's not perfect by any means with the new collar, but he's better. He runs straighter which I think will be healthier in the long term for his hips and whatnot. As you can tell, Amos and I have not mastered the loose leash walking/running with ease. He requires a lot of reminding and it's still a work in progress. I'm not sure why it hasn't come together for us as quickly as it has for others, especially considering how regularly we work on it, but I thought there might be useful info here as far as what has not worked for us and just to know that it is not a cake walk for everyone.
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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-26-2018, 02:15 PM
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I am confused on where in this tread anyone did condone "yanking", "jerking", or "pulling" on a lead? I will continue to introduce a collar/harness and lead on my pups starting at 8 weeks, as in my experience teaching a pup to be on your heel is much easier at that age, and can easily be taught in conjunction with other training. The collar/harness and leash at that point are simply so that relationship between going for a walk and having a collar/harness and leash on are associated early. My comment regarding having them on a lead during other training isn't for the purpose of "jerking" them if they don't listen, it is to ensure they remain within range to be able to help them be successful. If you are giving commands over and over while the pup is running around you are teaching behaviors you will pay for later. I personally will never use a slip, or pinch collar on my dogs as I believe in more positive styles of training.
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